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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 2 February 2026
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Displaying 804 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

There is a lot in that. The first thing is to acknowledge the scale of the hugely significant economic benefit of the culture sector. We must do all that we can to ensure that that success continues, which is about Government providing the funding that it is able to. However, it is also about creating the circumstances in which the culture sector can thrive and be sustainable on its own terms. We must ensure that there are parallel funding streams.

One of the areas that I am most optimistic about, because of its new significance to the wider economy, is the screen sector. Film festivals have been successful since their inception: we know that the Edinburgh international film festival goes back to the late 1940s. What is new is that we have moved beyond having a comparatively small-scale screen sector making occasional films, along with work at the BBC, STV and, increasingly, Channel 4 and others, to having a burgeoning wider screen sector.

We have gone from not having a single large-scale studio, despite appeals for famous Scottish actors to open them in the 1980s and 1990s, to us now having studios across the country, with more to come. As has been borne out by Screen Scotland’s report, we have got to a situation in which the value of screen—this figure is from memory, but I think that it is right—is nearly £650 million GVA, with a trajectory for it to be worth more than £1 billion by 2030. That has a massive positive impact on our economy, and we want to do everything that we can to support that. We want to make sure that that brings benefit everywhere in Scotland, and we need to embrace the opportunity that it will give for a new generation of people to find employment in those sectors.

Previously, in those sectors, we exported our talent and did not have the financial benefit of it being here. We need to acknowledge the value of—and do everything that we can to support—the established and successful parts of the cultural economy and the newer bits of the wider sector. That is a really good example of where, compared to the level of value, the intervention through Scottish Government funding—via Screen Scotland, with the likes of its production growth fund—is minuscule in comparison with the wider value that is accrued to the Scottish economy.

The challenge is to make sure that we provide funds in a way that helps sustainability, growth and new starts and, at the same time, is what is required for more established events, including festivals, at a time of change. That is exactly the kind of thing that I am interested in discussing with colleagues in the festivals sector, to make sure that things are as successful as they can be.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

I accept that Scotland has an extremely high international reputation when it comes to culture. I would not want to contribute in any way to undermining that. The festivals this year have been extremely successful—it would not be right to create an impression that they have not been the success that they have. Only last week, I was sitting in a room with sizeable international participation, where all attendees were praising Scotland’s cultural sector—in that context, it was fine art and the National Galleries.

If we make a comparison with international funding, it is absolutely true that there is more that we could do in Scotland. That is why we are developing an international culture strategy to ensure that we are working together. That includes our regularly funded organisations, major festivals and cultural organisations with international outreach. Some of those are supported and funded by the Scottish Government; some are not. Some are funded to a greater extent; some are funded to a lesser extent.

We must ensure that we are doing everything that we can for Scotland’s international reach. I know that there is significant ambition in relation to touring; I accept that. I look forward to the continuation of the extremely successful touring by different orchestras and theatre companies. It is really important that we acknowledge the pressures that organisations, including festivals, are under—and I will meet the Edinburgh International Festival to discuss that soon—but we must not inadvertently find ourselves in a situation in which we undermine our international reputation. There is a balance to be struck.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

Mr Brown is absolutely right to bring up the fact that the pressures that the Scottish Government bears in relation to its constrained income and constrained ability to do anything about it are matched by the constraints that the culture sector is feeling. There is inflation in general but, as I am sure that many will have told you, inflation is significantly higher in parts of the culture sector than in general. There is the impact of higher heating costs, and the list goes on for cultural organisations. That means that there is a double whammy: the ability of Government to do everything that it would like to do is constrained, and the culture sector—cultural organisations, venues and everything else—has a significantly constrained budget.

We have not even mentioned yet the impact that Covid has had, not only on the finances of those organisations but on societal attitudes towards going out, attending major events and so on. Those are massive shocks, which the Scottish Government fully acknowledges.

We are trying to do everything that we can to ensure that the funding is in place, given that extremity. Some of the organisations are in the public realm, although a great number are not but, where we can intervene, it is essential that we help as many organisations, venues, festivals and so on as we can to keep their heads above water and to thrive as we recover from Covid.

We also need to acknowledge that there are changes in the ways in which people are enjoying cultural offerings and differences in the ways in which events are planned, funded and undertaken, and we need to work with everybody in the culture and arts community during this period of change and uncertainty. We need to give as much assurance as we possibly can, which is why it is important that, when there is going to be no detrimental impact on our major arts funding body, because it has reserves to use, people hear that and we do not add to the wider concerns that people rightly have and that we need to deal with.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

Nothing changes. There is no detriment. Creative Scotland will be introducing its multiannual payment system next year, so it would not be calling on its reserves right now within this financial year to deal with the change to the multiannual funding system, and it will receive the £6.6 million, which is an offset from lost income in relation to the National Lottery, so we are stepping in to help Creative Scotland. We are doing that to a greater extent than we were expected to, and we will be doing so again next year. However, on the key point of whether that will have an impact on Creative Scotland’s ability to introduce multiyear funding and to have the means at its disposal in the quantum that it was hoping for, it will make no difference. There will be zero detriment.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

I think that cultural organisations are right to describe the pressures under which they are operating. We have heard about that in previous sessions and I have given evidence to you on that before. We are well aware of organisations such as the Filmhouse, Dance Base and the King’s theatre—which has had additional requirements—that have been flagging up that they are under significant financial pressure. We acknowledge that and that is why we have been working with Creative Scotland, which has been working—and continues to work—with organisations that are facing particular financial challenges.

I entirely acknowledge the evidence that has been given that there is a wish for culture to receive additional funding and, if I am able to secure additional funding for culture, that is exactly what I would like to happen. However, we also need to approach the funding and support of culture in other ways so, if it is possible for us to help in terms of commercial income to the cultural sector, we need to do provide that help and, if it is possible to secure additional support from philanthropy, we need to ensure that that is done, too. Right across the piece, we are focused on making absolutely sure that the Government provides the maximum funding that we are able to secure.

I refer Mr Bibby to our wider financial pressures. It is not as simple as saying that we would like more money and then, magically, more money appears. I think that he understands that, if we want more money for one area, it means that the cost needs to be borne elsewhere or, indeed, cuts need to be made elsewhere, so that is not a simple situation.

Having said that, I think that there is an understanding not just of the pressures that have been shared with the committee but of the significant benefit that is accrued—not least to the Scottish economy—from the creative sector. Again, the committee has received evidence of the financial benefits that are brought from festivals—as a good example—and the screen sector, when measured against the amount of money that is invested from the public purse. There is a really strong financial case, as well as a really strong wider societal case, because of the role that culture plays in social inclusion, health and wellbeing and all of the things that are key priorities for the Scottish Government. We need to make sure that we match the ambition of all of those things with the funding that we can secure in extremely pressed financial times. If colleagues on the committee—and, indeed, in other parties—have particular suggestions about how that can be best achieved, I would be pleased to hear them.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

I have given the assurance to the Creative Scotland board. It has accepted my assurance, and it has been prepared to use the reserve. It has accepted my assurance; whether I can persuade Mr Bibby to accept it is clearly a different question.

It is absolutely my pledge that Creative Scotland will see the £6.6 million that it is now releasing from its reserves restored to it. I understand why that is important, for the reasons that I gave earlier in relation to multiyear funding. That is something that will go ahead next year.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

I was not aware of £780—I am sorry, let me get the number right. I do not know whether Mr Bibby was aware of £785 million in additional pressures, because I was not. That has happened since the time that he refers to. Again, I make my point about fair mindedness and the acknowledgment that that is an additional and new pressure. Nobody had a crystal ball about the extent to which funding settlements would be pursued. I also draw colleagues’ attention to the fact that they have not all been resolved, so there is the potential for additional pressures above and beyond budgeted measures.

One has to make decisions on the basis of the facts as we find them now, towards the end of the year. Now that we are at the end of the financial year, I and my colleagues are doing everything that we can to ensure that there is not a cut to Creative Scotland’s ability to fund the regularly funded organisations. As we have heard repeatedly at this committee—as, in fact, this committee heard last week from Iain Munro himself—there will not be detriment to the regularly funded organisations through Creative Scotland’s budgetary processes. Beyond that, the uncontracted spend right across the culture sector that otherwise would have had to face massive cuts is now not doing so.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

I am sure that the convener would not want me to repeat the evidence that I gave in my opening statement about the changed financial circumstances and the additional pressures on the budget, although I would be delighted to do that if Mr Cameron wants me to. Mr Cameron was here and he heard that. If he needs to hear it again, I would be happy to share that with the committee.

Mr Cameron asserted that organisations will not be assured. Is he saying that the regularly funded organisations will not be assured when they receive their funding? That would surprise me. Creative Scotland is informing its regularly funded organisations that they will be receiving their funding in the next few weeks as planned. I imagine that the organisations are significantly assured, even if Mr Cameron is not.

In relation to the difference between the start and the end of the year, that should be obvious to any fair-minded person. I appeal to people’s fair mindedness in understanding the extreme financial pressures and to appreciate that, given that we are at the end of the year, we are getting closer to the introduction of the multiyear funding of the regularly funded organisations.

It is for Creative Scotland to explain its funding mechanisms, and I have no doubt that you will ask the organisation back to the committee to give evidence. One way or another, the organisation will have been beginning to need to draw down its reserves in order to spend on its multiyear funding of organisations. The commitment has been given that they will be provided with that funding in the normal way next year, so there is no detriment in relation to the reserves and funding that are available for Creative Scotland when it manages the transition for regularly funded organisations.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

I can say with 100 per cent certainty that I have not received any communication from any other parliamentarian or party to suggest that. I have heard calls for this or that to happen, or for more of this or that, but there have been zero suggestions that funding could be found elsewhere to deal with funding pressures in culture.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Angus Robertson

The funding that has been given to Creative Scotland in relation to the reducing level of national lottery payments has undoubtedly assisted in its being able to accrue reserves, which have most recently totalled £17 million, and I acknowledge that that is clearly important to the organisation. Mr Brown is right to say that, although the commitment of the Scottish Government to step in to bridge the funding gap was foreseen to be for three years, we have maintained it for five years.

We have already explored a bit the importance of multi-annual funding and the positive impact that it will have on the culture sector—it is what the sector and the Scottish Government want. However, that involves a huge transition programme from Creative Scotland, working on behalf of the culture sector in Scotland, and Creative Scotland needs to know that it has the resources in place when that process kicks in. As I have said a number of times from a number of angles, Creative Scotland will have the funding that it expected and requires to have in place to be able to do that work.

The global culture budgets of the Scottish Government are a separate issue but, as I have said, I will approach that subject with my colleagues in Government to ensure that we have the best possible settlement. The fact that Creative Scotland has been able to build up reserves reflects the fact that it has received funding from the Scottish Government in addition to the moneys that have been lost from the reducing amount from the national lottery.