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No. I want to give the committee the assurance that I have the utmost confidence in the senior civil servants who are dealing with Historic Environment Scotland from day to day. Not all of them are present in this meeting, as an additional senior civil servant has been brought into role and is dealing with these matters, in addition to Kenneth Hogg and other colleagues.

Mr Halcro Johnston and other colleagues will be aware—I am sure you can imagine—that I speak with those civil service colleagues extremely regularly about the developments that are taking place, and I want to pay tribute to them. I think that it is absolutely right that the appropriate officials have been in the room at the appropriate meetings, making sure that they understand the circumstances that are being discussed in a variety of fora with Historic Environment Scotland and are reporting what is necessary to me.

Convener, if I might be able to finish my answer to Mr Halcro Johnston—

Indeed.

That is correct. HES is also in receipt of about the same amount of resource in commercial income, which has seen a very significant increase in recent years. That is one of the reasons why Historic Environment Scotland has been viewed as a non-departmental public body that has been particularly successful in requiring a reduced level of support from the public purse. We have changed the rules so that it is able to retain more commercial income, which incentivises it to be more commercially successful.

As Mr Bibby reflects, public pay awards are important, and the remuneration of staff is also important—that should be the case in all public organisations. No specific issues with financial management have been raised with me. If Mr Bibby wants to share any concerns that have been raised with him, I will be happy to look at those and for them to form part of the discussions that I will have with senior HES management.

Yes. Ultimately, disbursal to non-departmental bodies happens through the Scottish Government’s budget process, and, as a cabinet secretary, I am involved in making the case for bodies and spending in my area of responsibility, as part of the normal budget process. That is how it works, yes.

I am happy to take away Mr Harvie’s suggestion and satisfy myself that the appropriate guidance is in place. If it is not, I will do what is necessary to make absolutely clear the Government’s position, both for ourselves and for our non-departmental public bodies.

There are three parts to the answer to Mr Kerr’s question, which is an entirely reasonable question.

First, as I have said to the committee and I have said publicly repeatedly, I have the utmost confidence in the ability of Sir Mark Jones to exercise his responsibility and leadership as chairman of the board of Historic Environment Scotland. We are all very indebted to him because he is acutely aware of the situation that he has come into. I met him personally to impress on him how keen I was for somebody with his track record to take on the task, to be absolutely candid about what I consider the scale of the challenge to be, and to give him the full confidence that he will have any resource at his disposal to be able to do what needs to be done to get Historic Environment Scotland back working in the way that we expect any non-departmental body to do.

I have had a subsequent and follow-up conversation with Sir Mark about the progress that is taking place and the next steps. Part of what is happening to bolster capacity is the recruitment of a chief operating officer. That is happening closely with help and support from the Scottish Government. It is also happening with the appointment of new members of the board with particular skill sets, and I am keen to confirm to the committee who they are as soon as possible, because I think that all committee members will agree that they are very good appointments. That will be a support for Sir Mark on the board as the change programme goes through.

If there is anything else that Sir Mark says that he requires, I have said to him—and I say this to the committee—that I will be very sympathetic to supporting him completely in any ask that he has. Mr Kerr is right: he has an expectation of how many days a week his chairmanship will take up, but we will be as supportive as required.

The second part is to understand that Sir Mark is chairman of the board and he has inherited a range of investigations, internal and involving others, into matters that are well known to the committee—you have been sent the reports, as have I, and I am as concerned as members of the committee are with all of them. Sir Mark is taking forward the on-going issues; he is doing that. It is not appropriate for me to appoint somebody to a post, to say I have full confidence in him taking that forward, and then to take over responsibility and oversight for such processes. He must be able to start his work as chairman of the board of Historic Environment Scotland and to go through these very challenging issues. If at any stage there is a suggestion that there are things that need to happen for which the Scottish Government has responsibility, we will take that on board.

The third part of the answer to Mr Kerr’s question is about the suggestion that there should be an investigation now into what has been going on in Historic Environment Scotland. As I have already signalled, I think that it is the place of Sir Mark Jones, the board and new board members to take those matters forward now. Should at any stage there be a requirement for further investigations, for further, wider or deeper understanding of the nature of the historic problems, or for anything else in the matter, I am not ruling anything out.

The first point to put on record is that I abhor racism, as does the Scottish Government—I would expect that to be the case across the Government and non-departmental public bodies. I would also expect the Government and/or non-departmental public bodies to take any such issues, or allegations of such behaviour, extremely seriously.

That formed part of the conversations that I had with Sir Mark in relation to his incoming responsibilities with Historic Environment Scotland. I wrote to him directly, raising a number of very serious and concerning matters involving governance and leadership in general in the organisation, including the allegations of racism against a Historic Environment Scotland director.

I have asked the incoming chair of Historic Environment Scotland to prioritise the reviewing of procedures and to report his findings to me. I know that Mr Harvie was very careful in asking his question and in understanding that we should not go into specific individual cases. However, I want to be assured that any issues that involve inappropriate behaviour of any kind—there is, as we know, a wide range—are fully investigated. I also want to be assured that the incoming chair and the board—old and new members—are able to look at all these issues as and when the reviews and investigations have concluded.

Excuse me, convener, but I was in the middle of a sentence.

I was just stressing how important it is for the committee to understand the day-to-day interaction between the sponsorship team and Historic Environment Scotland or, indeed, any sponsorship team and whatever non-departmental public body it is engaged with. That is the key interface when one is dealing with a day-to-day problem, and I think that it is really important for committee members to understand that such engagement is an almost daily occurrence. I would not want the impression to be created that the Scottish Government and its officials are not engaging with Historic Environment Scotland, that I am not being updated on progress and that I am not making decisions that are helping Historic Environment Scotland get into a better place. The facts and the timeline make absolutely clear that that is what is happening.