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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 1472 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

No, they do not—and that is one of the concerns that has been raised during stakeholder engagement. Referring to the 61,000 applications that have been registered and the point that more than 200 owners have decided not to keep their dogs, I do not know, specifically, if they have all been put down. I do not know whether Jim Wilson knows that detail.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

I have concerns. The issue of the definition of an XL bully has been raised with me since day 1, which is why we want to be very clear as we move forward, especially on the Scottish Government website. The description has to be done in a way that supports people to identify whether they have an XL bully.

Christine Grahame is correct that the issue has been sensationalised in the past couple of months in newspaper articles and on television. Some supposed XL bully dogs would not be identified as such through the height definition. That has caused confusion with the general public, as well.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

Stakeholders raised the issue of rehoming centres—you will know about those—and the possibility of allowing those centres an extension so that they can rehome XL bullies. Unfortunately, however, in the circumstances in which we currently find ourselves, if that loophole was opened, it would—again—allow dogs to be brought up to rehoming centres in Scotland to be distributed throughout the country.

We can look at that with the implementation group, but I would have concerns about it. Jim Wilson might want to come in on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

I mentioned earlier the unintended consequences of this legislation, such as the issue if someone dies. These things are being considered and, as Jim Wilson outlined, we will consider them. We have the implementation group, and it could be very worthy of consideration to include the group that you mention. I do not know whether Jim wants to give his view on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

Just to give a little clarity, in the past couple of weeks—I am not sure whether the situation was the consequence of somebody dying and XL bullies having to be rehomed—the SSPCA was trying to rehome four XL bullies before Friday, because it will have to adhere to the legislation on rehoming that comes into force then.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

It was not that I specifically chose not to meet them. I was being updated every week and, when I found out that the legislation was going to be put in place in England and Wales, I had no detail about it at that stage. I said to Jim Wilson that I wanted to meet all stakeholders to get their view on what was happening in England and Wales. I have lived, breathed and dreamed XL bully dogs since last November. It is not that I did want to meet the UK Government; I was watching exactly what was happening as the measures were implemented down south.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

No, we do not. As I have said, when the UK legislation was announced on 31 October 2023—and I was formally told about it in mid-November—I was confident that, through the dog control notices that we have in place in local authorities, we would have the same safeguards in place for 31 December that England and Wales had in place. Even when I was engaging with stakeholders down south, they were wishing that they had DCNs in place in England and Wales, as Scotland does. I felt confident with that.

Serious consideration was given to the issue during the Christmas period. We do not have any stats on exactly how many XL bullies were brought up, but we saw material on social media relating to community safety issues. There was also an animal welfare issue, as it would cause anxiety for dogs to be brought up in vans and taken into new households, with no history and not knowing where they were going. We took the considered option to move forward, primarily for community safety but also for the welfare of the XL bully dogs.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

No—it is all just on social media, and it is very hard to collect data from social media. Jim Wilson might have something to add.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

Yes. I do not agree with Mr Findlay’s perception of how things have come about, but I agree that community safety is paramount. However, we find ourselves with rushed legislation.

10:30  

In an ideal world, the UK Government would have got in touch with the Scottish Government to say, “Look—these are our proposals; let’s work together”, and it would have done the same with Wales and Northern Ireland too, but that is not the way that it happened.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Siobhian Brown

We had no detail in mid-September. Even the UK Government did not have the detail then.