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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 March 2026
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Displaying 1640 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I can bring in Lewis Hedge to provide further clarity.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

That is not what I am suggesting, Mr Ross. I am suggesting that I cannot give that information to the committee just now. As I said, there is a date by which the decision must be made, and I am committing to ensuring that I inform the member in charge, the committee and Parliament about the decision that is taken. However, I cannot provide any more information about when that decision will be made at this moment in time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I understand the significance of the situation, and I do not want to pre-empt any decision on the financial resolution. What I can say is that the financial resolution is a legitimate and important process that ensures that ministers can exercise our unique responsibility and accountability for the Scottish budget. As I said in the debate last night, that power is not unique to Scotland. The Welsh and United Kingdom Governments have similar powers. As I said, it is a legitimate and important process.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

As I made clear during the stage 1 debate and in my engagement following it, the Government and the committee have raised legitimate concerns about the affordability of the bill. Those concerns remain unresolved, which is why we need to consider the issue. As I have said, the process is in place to allow the Scottish ministers final control over the Scottish budget, so—

08:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

There are costs attached to the bill that remain unknown. The process helps Parliament not to walk into unknown costs. Ms Smith has worked to bring the costs of the bill down, but there remain outstanding concerns about the unknown affordability of certain measures, such as the workforce implications, support for children with additional support needs and capital costs to improve the infrastructure. A number of matters have not been taken into account, all of which I have asked Ms Smith to address. Concerns remain outstanding. Parliament needs to be clear that we can gather data around the costs that have been put forward, but more time is needed for that and—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

No. Again, it would not fall on the Government to complete that work.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I am sorry, Ms Smith; by “not a Government-supported bill”, I mean that we abstained on the bill. This is not a Government-led bill—it is a member’s bill. Thereby, responsibility to work out the costings and affordability rests with you, as the member in charge.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes. I will bring in Lewis Hedge for clarity, because I do not want to say the wrong thing.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I believe that the total is £5 million to £6 million, but I could be wrong on that. However, it is clear that a non-legislative pilot would represent a significantly lower initial cost. The Government would have control over how and when any such financial implications would be incurred against the budget, so that would provide a greater level of certainty.

Also, a non-legislative pilot approach does not necessarily represent a recurring annual budget implication. Equally, it would give the Government time to learn. I have spoken this morning about the gaps in the data, which we are already working to overcome and want to overcome, and that approach would give us the necessary time to do so. Creating a new statutory obligation for what is, as I have said, an unknown total potential recurring annual cost is a significant risk that I and ministers have a responsibility to consider.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Natalie Don-Innes

I am sorry. You are asking why the Government has dedicated time to—