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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

The honest answer to that is that we do not know yet. Part of the conversation that we needed to have with Lord Harrington and part of the conversation that others have been having with other UK Government ministers is around the fact that the data flows have not started in the way that we would want them to start, and we do not have the information in place as yet. I do not believe that that is because the UK Government is holding it back from us; rather, I believe that it is because of the speed at which the system has been created. From the First Minister’s conception on one Friday to the launch on the following Friday, getting the system up and running has taken time. However, we are pressing hard to ensure that we get that data as quickly as possible so that we are able to provide a bespoke service that allows people who are arriving here from Ukraine the comfort of knowing that we are making early contact with them to ensure that they know what to expect and to ensure that we have services in place to be able to respond as well as possible.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

I am happy to bring in Alison Byrne to confirm, but my understanding is that local government funding is still to be allocated through a system that is to be agreed with COSLA but that other funding streams have been allocated. Alison Byrne might have further information, particularly on the Scottish Refugee Council.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

The success of the Syrian scheme was very much that all 32 local authorities were involved in it. I am grateful that local government has agreed that all 32 local authorities expect and are ready to be involved in the Ukraine scheme. We will not pick an arbitrary number in our approach to how that will be split; it will be about where there is availability and where we know that we can provide support.

Mr Cameron rightly alluded to the fact that a larger Ukrainian community is based in Edinburgh. We are aware of that, and it might well point to more people arriving in Edinburgh through the family route and perhaps not so many through the supersponsor route. Those issues will all be considered, and there will be a clear triage, allocation and matching process, in which we will involve local government, to ensure that we get people in longer-term accommodation as quickly as possible. We will also ensure that we have wraparound support in other areas as soon as possible so that people can find a way to get a more normal life and recover from the trauma that they have experienced as quickly as possible.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

There are two very important issues there. First, Mr Cameron will remember well that I was the minister who moved the motion to withhold legislative consent from the Nationality and Borders Bill. It has been a very consensual meeting thus far, so I do not want to break that, but my comments on that are clearly on the record. Given the situation, we can see that the bill was short sighted—it has been shown to be so.

We maintain a very good and positive relationship with the UK Government at a ministerial and official level in relation to the response to the issue. From the conversations that I have had with the likes of Lord Harrington, I believe that the UK Government genuinely wants the approach to work; it is keen to respond to our questions and to provide the information that we need as quickly as possible. I am pleased that there is a commitment to doing that. That approach is replicated at an official level; I am pleased that there is a good working relationship there, which, as you say, has not always been the case.

It should go without saying that we will treat people with the same respect and dignity regardless of where they come from, however, I will repeat the point that Scotland has a long history of welcoming people who are seeking sanctuary, which goes back decades and generations. We will continue to welcome such people, regardless of where they come from.

I am aware that there have been difficulties in previous schemes in which there has not been the same partnership approach between the UK Government, the Scottish Government, local government and the third sector as there has been in the Syrian and Ukrainian schemes. I hope that having genuine partnership working will ensure the success of the Ukrainian scheme.

We continue to do what we can to provide support for Afghanis who are in Scotland but we acknowledge the fact that, because of the way that the scheme was set up, the responsibility for accommodation lies with the UK Government. Regardless of where people come from, we are determined to do all that we can to support them in their time of need and we will continue to do that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

Mr Ruskell is absolutely right. Conversations are on-going with the farmers. We are aware of offers of support from some farmers in the form of accommodation, linked and otherwise, for seasonal agricultural workers who are already here.

In all aspects of Scottish society, I have been overwhelmed by the offers of support, the feeling of solidarity and the willingness to go above and beyond to ensure that we provide the safety, security and sanctuary that people from Ukraine absolutely deserve, and farming is part of that. The farming sector has been incredible.

I expect that conversation to continue in order to ensure that we provide the support that is needed to support people arriving from Ukraine.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

I very much appreciate Mr Sweeney’s anxiety to move at pace on all those matters. He can rest assured that the pace has been relentless over the past few weeks since I have had additional responsibility for refugees arriving from Ukraine: we have been getting the supersponsor scheme in place and then ensuring that we have the support services in place around that.

I will bring in John Primrose to talk about the public transport elements on which he can illuminate the committee further. I am conscious from my previous experience as convener of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee that the Government is very much alive to finding creative ways to provide support for people where it can. The system is different for the Ukrainians, by the way, because they have recourse to public funds, but that is a separate situation.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

Again, we are keen to get the data on the supersponsor scheme as quickly as possible. I note that the previous witnesses were very complimentary about the fact that we have established the supersponsor scheme and that they understood it to be, as we intended, a humane and swifter approach to ensure that we get people here as quickly as possible. For the scheme to work, we are still reliant on the UK immigration system working as quickly as possible to approve initial visa applications so that people can get here. That is why, initially, we wanted visas to be waived; that was our preferred approach.

We are pleased that we have managed to put in place the supersponsor route, and we are now gearing up to ensure that we have a co-ordinated response. Having a clear and live data flow is crucial to that. That will ensure that we are aware of how people are applying and when applications are approved, so that we can tailor our response accordingly.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

The answer to the first part of Mr Ruskell’s question is yes, that is under consideration. I pay tribute to colleagues round the table who have been working on it.

On the second part of Mr Ruskell’s question, we are in constant dialogue on the matter, and colleagues in the committee will be aware of the statutory instruments that were laid this week in order to ensure that people arriving from Ukraine have access to public funds in Scotland, including social security. We have moved at pace on that work and, to be fair, the UK Government has done likewise. I am hopeful that, from a financial perspective, people will have access to the support that they are going to need. On the public transport side, we are considering all the options.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

Absolutely, convener. Conversations are on-going on all those aspects.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

Yes, we have; I have had a number of meetings with Yevhen Mankovskyi. He is involved in the partnership approach that we are looking to take and is helping us to ensure that we are tailoring our response appropriately, understanding the linguistic and cultural differences that there may be and ensuring that we are mindful of those and sympathetic to them. Our local authority partners have experience of delivering education for people who have arrived from other countries such as Syria. I mentioned the success of that scheme and I know that our local authority partners are already working on replicating that model to ensure that we are providing appropriate support for children in our schools. We are also working very closely with the Ukrainian consul to ensure that we are mindful of those issues, that we approach the experience for children as sympathetically as possible and that we understand their needs as well as possible.