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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

Yes, I am aware of the circumstances. That particular weekend, we had challenges with temporary accommodation and ensuring that we had availability for people who we knew were going to be arriving into Edinburgh, which is, predominantly, the arrival point for the whole of Scotland. We asked some of the displaced Ukrainians, who were in a hotel in Livingston, whether they would be willing to move elsewhere, and a bus was put on for that to happen. Some people still travelled. There was a regrettable incident, and that issue caused additional harm and stress to those who were potentially travelling.

It is important to stress that lessons have been learned from that about the need for all of us to ensure that we communicate as well as possible, not just with displaced Ukrainians but with those who support them. I have already articulated, as has the committee, the challenges in Edinburgh and the local area and the need to ensure that there is a whole of Scotland approach. Different parts of Scotland provide different opportunities, and we need to make sure that we articulate to people why we sometimes need to move them.

However, I think that the necessity for such moves is much reduced, given the situation that we are now in. I want to reduce that even further by ensuring that we progress the matching service as quickly as possible and allow people to get into longer-term accommodation.

10:45  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I thank the committee for having me along again this morning. As the convener mentioned, last week, I visited Poland to see first hand how it has responded to the arrival of more than 3 million displaced people from Ukraine, and to show our solidarity with the Polish people who are supporting them. When I was there, I met international aid organisations and the Polish Government, and was able to see how the £4 million of financial aid that we are providing has made a difference.

I also met inspirational leaders from civil society, who are supporting people from the moment that they arrive in Poland. I met volunteers at UNICEF’s blue dot centre. Blue dot centres are safe places at key transit points that provide families and children with critical information and services. UNICEF has used some of the £1 million from the Scottish Government to fund 24 blue dot centres in countries neighbouring Ukraine where there are a high number of displaced people.

One part of my visit will stay with me for a long time. At the start of the war, an unoccupied, disused shopping centre in Krakow was repurposed to welcome people who had fled Ukraine. It provides temporary accommodation and food, alongside support, mainly for women and children. Donations of clothing and footwear are put on display—like they would be in a department store—giving people dignity when choosing the clothes that they need. It was incredibly hard for me to see how women and children in particular are living in that refugee centre. The people around them are absolutely doing their best to make it the best place possible for them. However, seeing, feeling and smelling first hand the difficult situation that the Ukrainian people are facing has given me even greater determination to ensure that we in Scotland are doing everything that we can to provide the support that people arriving here need and deserve.

It is clear to me that Scottish support for agencies on the ground in the region is still very much needed, but I am also determined to do everything that we possibly can to support Ukrainians while Scotland is their home. One of the major lessons from my visit is that there is a need for local and national Government in Scotland to fully utilise the power of the third sector and engage volunteer networks to support displaced people to settle in our communities. I am immensely proud that we in Scotland have opened our homes to people fleeing this awful war, but it is clear that our work is far from done.

You have already heard from my friend the consul general about the work that is on-going and the challenges that we have ahead. When we met in March, Scotland was preparing to welcome displaced people. We were determinedly pressing the UK Government to waive visa requirements. At that time, very few people had arrived in Scotland. We have moved on considerably since then. Since I last gave evidence to the committee, more than 4,000 people with a Scottish sponsor have arrived. The Scottish Government has sponsored around 70 per cent of those arrivals.

We have provided a safe and quick route for people to find safety in Scotland. Our local authorities have been working hard, supported by third sector partners, to do all that we can to work within the UK Government visa scheme to welcome and support people arriving from Ukraine.

A national matching service, delivered by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, has been set up to match people arriving under the supersponsor scheme to longer-term accommodation and make use of the generous offer of the use of their homes that has been made by the people of Scotland.

My concerns about the UK Government’s bureaucratic approach to the humanitarian crisis are well documented. We continue to press it to waive visas, put people before process and provide local authorities with the funding that they need to support people to rebuild their lives.

Last week, the Welsh Government announced that it was pausing its supersponsor scheme. I am very sympathetic to its situation, and I know that that will have been a very hard decision to reach. However, that underlines the challenges that we are all facing in this situation.

The First Minister has made it clear that her intention is for Scotland to welcome a fair and proportionate number of displaced people from Ukraine who arrive in the UK. We are not planning to pause the Scottish supersponsor scheme. Our energy and focus are on building up the national matching service and providing people with longer-term accommodation and integration support to make Scotland their home for as long as they need it to be.

I am happy to take questions.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

We are providing support through JustRight Scotland and constantly review the level of support that JustRight Scotland requires to ensure that we can meet the demand for advice about immigration status. I hope that the capacity that we have put in place at JustRight Scotland will ensure that we can meet that demand.

As Mr Ruskell says, the extension scheme is useful up to a point, because it gives people certainty until the end of this year. However, we do not have parity between those who are on the seasonal workers visa and those who arrive through the homes for Ukraine or family visa schemes, which allow people to be here for three years. We have asked for that to be rectified to give better parity so that people can have more certainty.

Another issue is that people who are on the seasonal workers scheme are unable to sponsor family members to come here. The supersponsor scheme has given a workaround for that: people can be sponsored by the Scottish Government and can join their families. That is a workaround, but it would be fairer to ensure parity across all the schemes. That again speaks to the challenges of taking an immigration response to a humanitarian crisis, as opposed to having a proper resettlement scheme.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I am happy to be corrected, but I do not think that any money has ever been held back by the Scottish Government. The £11 million is there for local government to utilise to ensure that housing provision is made available in a flexible way. Local authorities can use that as they wish to ensure that they can provide accommodation to people who are being hosted in their communities. I am not aware of any money ever having been held back by the Scottish Government.

There is a question mark over when the money from the UK Government for the £10,500 tariff will arrive, and there is a serious question mark over whether £10,500 is enough for local authorities to be able to provide the services that are required to ensure that the wraparound support that is needed is provided. We are looking at what we can do to ensure that local government is properly supported in that regard. There is also a question mark around the UK Government not having given any further commitment to that funding beyond this year, so I would be grateful for anything that Mr Golden can do to articulate and amplify the concerns that he has received.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I hope that that provides further clarity, especially on the funding issue. Local authorities are only now getting the claim forms. We have had to provide letters of comfort, particularly around the £200 payment. That highlights the challenges that we have faced in knowing and confirming what will be happening as regards funding from a UK Government perspective.

We are working closely with UK Government ministers—in that regard, the relationship is positive. However, there are often challenging conversations about ensuring that the rhetoric is matched with action. We need to ensure that the funding scenario is resolved at a greater pace, because that is at least part of local government’s concern.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

Mr Golden should be confident that we have had those conversations from a very early stage. We have been working with our partners in all public services on accommodation needs—there will clearly be pressures in that area, too—on practical healthcare and mental health support and on the trauma response that Mr Golden alluded to. We have been in dialogue with our partners in local government, the health service and the third sector to ensure that we respond effectively and as quickly as possible. That response starts from arrival. Our first discussion, from a triage perspective, will relate to immediate needs, and we will then have a more in-depth discussion on longer-term needs. We are alive to those issues and are keen to ensure that we provide appropriate support as quickly as possible.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

Yes.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

First, I commend Dnipro Kids for the work that it has done. That should go without saying. However, we should remind ourselves of the phenomenal work that has been involved in getting the children here—and I am very pleased that they are here.

In more general terms, we need to ensure that we respect the privacy of everybody arriving in Scotland, including ensuring that it is respected and maintained in relation to the locations that they will be at and the routes by which they will arrive. I concur with the concerns that the convener raised in her question, as well as during the committee’s earlier deliberations with the previous panel.

We need to understand the fact that these people—particularly children—will have fled particularly traumatic experiences, and be mindful of ensuring that, when they arrive here, they are treated with dignity and respect and are allowed the time and space to enable them to recover well.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

We can learn a number of lessons. First, we are incredibly proud that all 32 local authorities were involved in the resettlement of refugees from Syria. Second, partnership working was a key part of ensuring that success. Across the UK Government, Scottish Government, local authorities and the third sector, a very clear approach of partnership working ensured that people were provided with the security and sanctuary that they needed, as well as long-term support.

Reflecting on North Lanarkshire—my local area, as well as the convener’s—I believe that there was a particularly strong model for the Syrian scheme in relation to its volunteer befriending networks. We have learned from all of that, and that is why we are keen to ensure that we are doing everything possible in the scheme to provide everything that people who are arriving from Ukraine will need and that we are following a similar approach.

Partnership working is already established. As I outlined in my opening statement, there are regular meetings at the official and ministerial levels with our colleagues in local government, the public services and the third sector. We will continue that approach, because the success of the scheme will come from all of us working together and ensuring that we are providing the best for people who are arriving from Ukraine—and, for that matter, anywhere else.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Neil Gray

We are in constant dialogue with our colleagues in the UK Government. Yesterday, I had a meeting with Lord Harrington on ensuring that appropriate data is shared so that we have an awareness as early as possible of people who are arriving from Ukraine and we are able to have contact details for them so that we can make early contact with them and ensure that they know what to expect, when to expect it, and how that will work for them.

Ensuring that there is a partnership approach and that we get a proper flow of information will be absolutely critical for success. The First Minister, the Deputy First Minister, Shona Robison, Angus Robertson, other ministers in other areas of Government with responsibility for delivering public services and I are all engaged in ensuring that we get information where it is needed and that we are working in partnership with the UK Government to get that through as quickly as possible.