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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 August 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

It is important that I stress the incredible on-going effort from third sector partners and local authorities in Scotland. The work that they are doing is phenomenal and self-starting. You have heard from Yevhen Mankovskyi about some of the direct support that is going to Ukraine and the impact that that is having.

The third sector in Poland is far more involved at the initial welcoming stage and is doing a lot more on the ground, whereas in Scotland matters are being co-ordinated by local government with support from the third sector. I am very grateful to the Scottish Refugee Council and others for all the work that they are doing in that regard.

On what more our third sector partners might be able to do, we need to ensure that the full team Scotland approach can be deployed. We are all facing a huge challenge. We all want to overcome that and ensure that our approach works incredibly well for those who are arriving from Ukraine.

The other lesson that I have taken from the visit to Poland is that our Scottish Government support is leading to tangible results—that was clear to me. I visited the blue dot centre; Caritas, which we work with; the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund, which we have funded; and the Red Cross centres. I saw the work that they are doing to support people as they arrive in Poland, and I know what they are doing on the ground in Ukraine as well.

From that, it was clear to me that our support is being well used and that, sadly, there is a job to do, both for large non-governmental organisations that we have supported and for smaller NGOs. Some of the smaller NGOs, such as Open Krakow, which is led by Maria Wojtacha, are incredible. I take my hat off to them for the support that they are providing alongside accommodation and for the way in which they are giving dignity to people in a really challenging situation. I was able to articulate that and pass on my thanks to them for the work that they are doing.

It was a useful trip for me in terms of taking back lessons that we are already trying to deploy in the response in Scotland.

10:00  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I am grateful to you, convener, for sending that particular case to me and for asking that question, because it gives me the opportunity to once again say in no uncertain terms that nobody in Scotland needs to use social media to find private matches. That is the whole point of the supersponsor scheme—it makes the process safer. We do not need people running the risk presented by well-meaning social media pages that offer matching or re-matching services. Those are not needed in Scotland.

The Scottish Government will match people, and if a match breaks down, they should contact their welcome hub, local resettlement team, the Scottish Government or their MSP, but they do not need to use social media sites. I have major safeguarding concerns about those sites, and I have articulated to UK ministers my concerns about that, the prevalence of such sites elsewhere in the UK and the fact that they are posing a major risk to the homes for Ukraine scheme elsewhere. I cannot stress enough the fact that people should not use social media to find private matches. That is not necessary in Scotland.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I support in principle everything that Mark Ruskell has said. Following my previous appearance at the committee, when Paul Sweeney attended as a substitute member, I had a productive meeting with him and Bob Doris on that very issue, alongside Transport Scotland officials and others. We are trying to work our way through it and find a system that would avoid the need for complex legislation. There are complexities in extending the scheme, and in ensuring that we can identify who we would be extending it to and how that would work.

We are trying to find a way through that situation, and we have great sympathy for the proposal. I very much appreciate the work that has been done by local authorities across Scotland, which Mr Ruskell mentioned. As well as Stirling, many others across Scotland, including Glasgow and Edinburgh, are doing fantastic work to provide transport support.

I would not dismiss the entitlement that is already available. Not long after that committee meeting, I met Mr Mankovskyi and we discussed that very issue. I explained to him the entitlement that people already have because of their age, for example. At that stage, the entitlement that is already available had not been communicated to the Ukrainian community. That entitlement does not cover everybody; it covers just over half of the people, and we are looking at what we can do to ensure that the other half also have support.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

If I were to put an estimation on that, I do not think that it would be far away from what the committee has already discussed. It is not a situation that we want to see happening. We do not want people to be in hotel rooms for any longer than is absolutely necessary, for all the reasons that Mr Mankovskyi articulated, including the pressures on families, and mothers with young children in particular. I perfectly understand that and absolutely sympathise. I cannot imagine the challenge of living out of a hotel room.

The committee can be reassured that the Scottish Government, working with local government and our third sector partners, is doing everything that it can. Following my visit to Poland, having seen how people are living there, I have placed an even greater emphasis on ensuring that we are doing everything that we can. We are leaving no stone unturned in exploring how we can commit the resource, both human and financial, to ensure that we get the matching service moving as quickly as possible.

A reasonable number of matches has already been made; the matching service works. We just need to make sure that it happens as quickly as possible. There are different reasons why there is a challenge there. Some people who offered their properties have had a change in circumstances, and those conversations have to happen. It is a resource-intensive process to go through those discussions to ensure that we understand people’s circumstances.

I would be happy to speak to anybody who feels that they have additional ideas about ways of ensuring that we are able to address the situation and get the process moving as quickly as possible.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I understand that perfectly. Most people arriving from Ukraine have had their lives turned upside down. Often, their property has been destroyed and their finances have been ripped apart, sometimes to get here in the first place. They face huge challenges, and, clearly, we want to do everything that we can to provide the support that is required to allow them to re-establish their lives. Transport is one element, and we are investing in many others to do everything possible to ensure that they are able to re-establish their lives in Scotland for as long as they want to call Scotland their home.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I would be interested to see what further guidance Highland Council is looking for, because, with respect, we have provided significant guidance on how we expect the system to work and are looking to ensure that we are working in partnership with local government. If there are concerns that it wishes to raise, we want to hear them and work through them as quickly as possible.

Similarly, I am in constant dialogue with COSLA. I had a meeting with COSLA’s president on Monday and, two weeks previously, I had a meeting with COSLA to try to find a way to ensure that we get the matching service working as quickly as possible. If the committee wants to write to me with any specific questions, I would be more than happy to write back timeously to ensure that you are given confidence that we are taking all these issues incredibly seriously and that we are working through all the concerns and questions that have been raised with us.

The first point that you acknowledged was around the impact that visiting Poland has had on me and the determination that I have that we do everything that we can and commit as much resource as we can—from the Scottish Government, local government and the third sector—to ensure that we are giving people arriving from Ukraine and other war zones the opportunity to make Scotland their safe and supportive home for as long as they need it.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

There are a number of areas on which it is important to provide clarity. First, I think that I will have a conversation about this with Mr Mankovskyi later, but some of the challenge is to do with people understanding how far away they are from the social security support for which they qualify actually arriving with them. As Mr Cameron will be well aware, part of the issue is that a five-week wait is in-built for universal credit, and we all know the challenges that result from that. I do not think that we will resolve that particular situation today, but that in-built five-week wait poses major challenges for people in Scotland and the rest of the UK, and for those who are arriving from Ukraine. That is another argument for why the UK Government needs to resolve the structural issues with universal credit, which I campaigned hard on in a previous life.

Mr Tyler-Greig has already raised the second issue that I want to raise. The Scottish welfare fund is available for people who arrive from Ukraine, particularly to fill the gap with the five-week wait for universal credit from the DWP. We have provided support and guidance to local authorities to ensure that that money is made available to people who arrive from Ukraine.

Obviously, we are doing everything that we can through Social Security Scotland for people who have more complex issues and entitlements to Scottish social security to ensure that the range of entitlements that are available in Scotland is articulated to the welcome hubs, and that that is all progressed and processed as people arrive and go through the hubs.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I am happy to bring in Joanna Keating at this point to provide clarification on the process for the activation of the HEF. As far as I am aware, such a request has not been made.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I certainly hope so. There will always be a need for people to move in Scotland. As I have already articulated, Edinburgh is the arrival point for the vast majority of people who arrive from Ukraine. Whichever country they arrive from, they arrive predominantly, although not exclusively, in Edinburgh, and it is clearly not sustainable for people to stay in the Edinburgh area for a long period, because of the accommodation pressures that Ms Boyack has articulated. Therefore, there will always need to be a move or a couple of moves for people to put down their roots. I want to limit that as much as possible and ensure that there is communication so that, at all stages when there is a move, it is voluntary and people from Ukraine understand the process that they are going through.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

That is a fair challenge, and I wish that I could give a definitive answer to it, but I cannot. Bob Doris and Paul Sweeney asked for the entitlement to be extended to asylum seekers and refugees in general, not just displaced Ukrainians. We are trying to ensure that, if possible, we provide something on a national basis, and that is where the additional complexity will lie. However, I give a commitment to write to the committee and to Mr Ruskell, given his interest in the area, to provide an update on how we are progressing with that.