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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

That is a matter for the Lord Advocate. She will determine when it is right and appropriate to do that. I do not have any further update on her thinking on that or on the timescales that are involved.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

As Mr Sweeney will understand, that is a matter for the health and social care partnership to consider. We already have a pretty lengthy opening period. I recognise his concern about what happens between 9 pm and 9 am, but this is a pilot and a test of change. It is an area for us to test and learn from. I fully anticipate that the health and social care partnership will look at whether availability could be increased, depending on what the demand looks like, but he will understand that that is a matter for the health and social care partnership to consider.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

It is clear that we have work to do to build on the foundations that have been put in place by the national mission. We are looking to provide systematic change in the availability of services and the types of interventions that we make. As has been demonstrated today through the lines of questioning, the Government is supporting a variety of interventions, from the implementation of the MAT standards to safer consumption facilities, and from drug-testing facilities to residential rehab. There is a broad range of interventions at play, and those take time to build up.

I recognise that there might be a feeling or a perception that there is a disconnect, but I believe that we are making progress. I say that because of the interactions that I have had with families, who say that progress is being made.

We have more work to do—that is clear, and the perception that Ms Dowey narrated demonstrates that. We need to ensure that we deliver demonstrable change that is felt at a local level and by individuals and their families. That is certainly what our collective effort is geared towards across the Government, in partnership with local authorities, health and social care partnerships and alcohol drug partnerships, with those in the community and voluntary sector who are involved in this area, and with families and advocacy organisations.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

I would be happy to provide that, convener.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

Ms Dowey touches on an important issue, which is the focus that is required. The Audit Scotland report recognises the national leadership and our consistency in setting out what we expect; it also recognises that there is more work to be done to provide that consistency at a local level.

I spoke earlier about the foundations that have been put in place through the national mission. Our work now is about building on that and ensuring that we are able to provide consistency.

We have provided record levels of funding to alcohol and drug partnerships, with £112 million this year; around £50 million in recurring funding; and the national mission funding. We want to ensure that there is consistency in that regard, but I also recognise the local decision making at ADP level. We will bring forward further recommendations on providing consistent standards—I will bring in Richard Foggo to provide greater clarity on that point.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

Absolutely, convener. You have hit on an incredibly important area, particularly for the community and voluntary sector. As a Government, we would appreciate a greater line of sight on what budgets will look like, which would help us with our aspirations to provide multiyear funding settlements. We recognise that those who deliver statutory services would also benefit from that.

We are making some progress in that space. The funding that we provide to the Corra Foundation is an example of that. That is the route through which we are providing support for community and voluntary organisations to develop their services. I will bring in Maggie Page to develop that point.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

I will bring in Maggie Page to talk about that area in a moment.

In the discussions that I have had with family members—those who are currently experiencing having a family member with a drug dependency and those who have lost a loved one through drug-related death—they tell me that stigma is one of the areas in which the national mission has been of greatest importance and where it has made the biggest strides. The shift in that respect, allowing people the space and the opportunity to feel confident about accessing services, both for themselves and their family members, has, they tell me, been incredibly important.

I felt that particularly keenly when I visited the service in Dumbarton, and during the private session that the First Minister and I had when the travelling Cabinet visited Ayr last week. Family members believe that the reduction in stigma is having a major impact on people feeling able to come forward.

That is why it is so important that we take a public health approach to the issue, as opposed to a justice approach. It is about keeping people in their communities and supporting them with some of the issues that underlie their drug, or indeed alcohol, dependency. As Richard Foggo has set out, it is important to acknowledge the clear correlation with poverty.

I will bring in Maggie Page to talk about the timescales in order to address Ms Haughey’s specific question.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

Ms McNeill touches on another really important area, which is the awareness and availability of services. Given that the question is about residential rehab, I again think back to my interaction with families who have a loved one or family member currently experiencing drug or alcohol dependency or who have lost loved ones to drug or alcohol dependency. Their lived experience is of prime importance and those families take a very clear view that availability of rehab and the awareness of the routes to that are improving. That is not to say that everything is all right or perfect, but it is improving.

As for access to residential rehab, medical professionals carry out clinical assessments as to whether such an approach is appropriate for a particular person. I think that Ms McNeill will recognise that it would not be right for me to interfere with the clinical decision-making process, but I do think we must ensure wider awareness in the health service and in community services of the availability of rehab and of what might be right for a particular person if that is not the right route.

I go back to Ms Dowey’s questions on the need for clarity about what is available in communities and the role of alcohol and drug partnerships and community organisations that help with signposting. The next stage will be to ensure that we can give people a clear picture, so that, if one particular route to recovery is not right for them, they can be aware of other opportunities.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

I absolutely concur with Mr O’Kane. That is a serious concern. I repeat that our interventions were not made lightly, and ministerial directions are not made often. We expect ADPs not just to implement the MAT standards but to provide greater awareness of them.

When we are talking about getting it right for everyone, it is important to recognise that that is particularly important for those with an opioid dependency. Across the country, cocaine use is prevalent and has been implicated in a rising number of drug-related deaths, but we do not currently have a medication-assisted treatment pathway available. That is why it is important that we look in the round at all the interventions that are available.

I am absolutely clear about the importance of making continued progress on the MAT standards, because, for a great many people, that helps to save lives. It reduces harm and gives them a pathway to seek recovery. I do not want there to be any quibbling about whether we are committed to that—we are, and I take very seriously the statistics that Mr O’Kane mentioned.

Criminal Justice Committee, Health Social Care and Sport Committee, and Social Justice and Social Security Committee (Joint Meeting)

Tackling Drug Deaths and Drug Harm

Meeting date: 14 November 2024

Neil Gray

There is certainly scope, and this is a pilot. The health and social care partnership, alongside the Government, will look at the success of the centre being set up as it is, and at what might be possible if we were to explore alternative or increased opportunities. Mr Sweeney made a suggestion in relation to the work that Peter Krykant did. That is potentially part of the exploration, and I am certainly not ruling any of that out, because we want to respond to what the evidence demonstrates works. It is important that we have the pilot so that we can demonstrate that it works. If further innovations could provide greater help and support, both the Government and, I would expect, the health and social care partnership would explore those.