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I will come to the social housing issue first. I think that there has to be more social housing built, which could be local authority housing. As you know, a piece of work on affordable housing is being carried out by Ken Gibb, whom I mentioned earlier. We have raised the issue in committee before, and Ken Gibb was asked to come back with a definition of affordable housing.

Affordable housing can be a number of things. Miles Briggs talked about mid-market rent. MMR can be important for people who cannot afford a deposit but for whom a house is still affordable. What does affordable housing mean? I look forward to getting that piece of work from Ken Gibb. I imagine that he will write to the committee about it at some stage. We have raised the issue of affordable housing in committee on a number of occasions; I remember doing so myself. It is important to know what affordable housing looks like and how we work with it, but I do not think that we actually have a definition of what it is.

As I have said before, there has to be an all-tenures approach. There are lots of examples of developments that I have been to where there is the opportunity for all-tenures housing—houses for sale, MMR or houses for rent. That all-tenures approach is needed.

On how financing for local authorities for what they do, we have gone on about the financing of local authorities and what needs to be done. The housing investment task force is a really important part of working out how we can get more money into the sector. The minutes of task force meetings will show that it has discussed how we can get more money to local authorities.

I come back to the point that Ken Gibb made, which was that guarantees and borrowing powers will be continued—he made that very clear. I note that Kezia Dugdale, who represents Shelter, very clearly supported Ken Gibb’s paper and what he has said on that issue. There is an question about how to get more money. I have talked about our investment discussions about how to get more money into the sector with local authorities, SFT, SNIB, hubco and so on.

Of course, there has to be social housing, but there has to be an all-tenures approach, as well. In East Lothian, Midlothian and other parts of Scotland, a lot of house building is going on. We can talk about 25 per cent of building being affordable housing, but if developers are not building housing using an all-tenures approach, 25 per cent of zero is zero. If the house-building sector picks up as interest rates drop—as we hope it will—the amount of affordable housing that is being built will, obviously, increase.

There has to be an all-tenures approach, but there also has to be a specific focus on affordable housing. One of the key things that was made clear in the housing investment task force was that funding would be focused particularly on social housing. There needs to be an all-tenures approach, but the housing investment task force agreed in its terms of reference that funding has to be focused on affordable housing and social housing. The work of Ken Gibb was referred to in that connection by the housing investment task force.

The number of voids is really important. The City of Edinburgh Council, for example, has talked about the number of voids that it has. A specific piece of work by Ken Gibb that I reference in every discussion that I have with local authorities is on-going. The meetings that we have had with COSLA and ALACHO are about the national approach and how we can drive down the number of voids, because there are far too many.

We need to ask what the Government needs to do about voids, but we also need to ask what local authorities need to do. That relates to the housing emergency action plans that we talked about in our discussions with local authorities. How do we help Edinburgh to get its number of voids down? In Edinburgh the problem is not funding but the fact that it does not have the workforce to deal with the issue. How do we work with that council to deliver that workforce? The issue differs in different parts of Scotland, so it comes back to how we look at that.

However, we need to make sure that we are driving down the number of voids, which could make a real difference in the number of temporary accommodation units that are available to local authorities. There will always be some voids and there will always be that carry-forward. However, given the number of people who are in temporary accommodation, more than 1,500 voids—I think that that was the figure that was mentioned at the round-table meeting that Miles Briggs and I attended—is far too many. I will give the City of Edinburgh Council thanks for beginning to drive the number down, but a national focus across Scotland is needed, so our discussions with COSLA and ALACHO are focused on what we need to do to drive down the number.

I will double check this, but I understand that the green heat finance task force is due to report around the end of April. I referred to it earlier, because it is all to do with specific advice to local authorities and housing associations. You are right to say that the issue has been raised in discussions; indeed, I think that Stephanie Callaghan mentioned it earlier. The question is this: where are repairs, retrofitting and investment in new stock referenced? We need to get clarity with regard to the green heat finance task force and the opportunities that exist.

I think that the figure that we have discussed with the committee is £33 billion in Scotland, which would create 15,000 to 20,000 jobs, but that would have to be underwritten with institutional investment. I think that the UK figure is more than £1 trillion. The fact is that what will need to be done will take institutional investment. I know that various models in that respect are being discussed and debated by the task force, specifically with regard to local authorities and housing associations.

As I have said, we need clarity on that; I hope that the report that will come out will give some clarity on what that will look like for local authorities. It will have to be underwritten by local heat and energy efficiency strategies, or LHEES. Those strategies have been produced for local authorities, and they are now moving on to deliverability plans. I know—Colin Beattie will also know—that a lot of work is going on in, for example, in East Lothian. Each local authority is working on deliverability and what that might look like.

As for conservation areas, a review of permitted development rights is going on, with a focus on what they look like and what might need to be done in that respect. After all, it becomes impossible to install solar panels or to put in windows, so the review of permitted development rights is looking at that and will feed into the approach to all this. You are right that this will be a big issue for people who live in conservation areas.

The next six months will be incredibly important. We need to do this—there is no doubt about that. The question is how we make it work not just for individual householders but for local authorities and housing associations, as part of that broader discussion about investment, dealing with the condition of properties and so on. Again, this is a matter for the committee, but I am sure that when the task force reports, some kind of discussion or debate will need to be held on that report.

In terms of—

One of the key things for that work will be indicators. We can all say anecdotally whether something is working or not, but what does that actually look like? That is still being discussed. Again, that comes back to the LHEE strategies, which should not include just what we need to do in relation to the fabric first approach and district heating systems, for example, but should include information on support. It is important that we get indicators about that particular point.

I can come back to you with more detail. A lot will come down to what local authorities are doing, how they monitor the work and how that information is fed into the Scottish Government. That needs to be part of an LHEE strategy. It is not just about how much money it is costing, where it is going and what the heating systems are—it is also about how we put out the required information.

When we spoke at the Skye and Lochalsh conference, we talked about how communities get information. I talked about insulation, as a small example. How do we get out and speak to communities that are out there, and how do we indicate that? Metrics need to be in place around how we develop that work, and that should be part of the LHEE strategies.

By the end of this year, it will be about deliverability and not just strategy. The question will be, “How will you actually deliver this?” It will be a challenge. The information that we put out and how we measure outcomes play important parts; that work is being developed with local authorities, at the moment.

That is another important point. I met the city region team in Edinburgh and we talked about the fact that there are seven or eight strategic housing developments that need to be brought forward there, and about how that could be done. At the end, we came to the view that the council needs an investment prospectus, so it is now developing that. There will then be an opportunity to sit down with investors and ask how we would deliver on that.

I also had a discussion with the Scottish Cities Alliance, which is important in terms of delivering housing and redeveloping city centres—Glasgow City Council is doing something similar in relation to the city region element.

We also need to consider what we need in terms of institutional investment in the main cities in Scotland, and the Scottish Cities Alliance is, in a way, trying to do part of that work as well. We need to think about what demand we can generate in relation to the city regions around Edinburgh and Glasgow, but we also need to think about what can be done through the Scottish Cities Alliance in terms of investment.

If, when we speak to investors, we aggregate the figures that are involved, we will be talking about a substantial amount of money. Over a period of time, that would involve institutional investment and Scottish grant funding, as well as funding that can be delivered by flexing the system that we already have around housing. We need to bring all those things together. The demand is there. The most important question is how we finance the supply. That is why we are talking about flexing the finance system that we have at the moment and getting the housing investment task force to look at the issues as a whole.

As you heard—I think that Joe Brown mentioned this—the first minutes of the housing investment task force will be published soon. Some of the ideas that came forward were encouraging, and the group will make recommendations.

That is an important point. Ken Gibb is a member of the housing investment task force and his input will be valuable. He talked about data, and he offered to do a piece of work around that. That will be developed as part of the work of the housing investment task force.

The reason why Ken Gibb was asked to join the group was to give a broad overview. If we are talking about flexing the system and bringing in institutional investment, it is important to have a balance across all tenures. Ken Gibb’s influence in that regard and on the issue of de-speculating the market will be key. I am not saying that there needs to be systemic change, but there has to be a whole-systems approach: we cannot change just one part of the system. Having Ken Gibb on the task force is important in terms of his academic input.

As I have said, Ken Gibb advises all the UK Governments on the matter. He has given an overview of what is available in terms of guarantees from the UK Government and his article in The Herald also talks about opportunities for the Scottish Government to consider guarantees that might help us. There would be no additional costs to the UK Government. That sort of thing would be really helpful. His input to finding a whole-systems approach will be important, and I think that he will be feeding into all of this from an academic point of view.

We have also heard the housing to 2040 group talk about innovative finance and the fact that one of the main short-term priorities is to flex the finance system. The housing investment task force is looking at that, too, as well as other issues. It is looking not just at how we deliver more housing but, if we are talking about temporary accommodation, at models in that respect, too. Ken Gibb will give us that balance with the expertise that he has.

Good morning, convener. It is always good to be back in the room with the committee. Thank you for inviting me to participate in this important discussion. I thought that it might be helpful to provide a short update on progress on some issues that the committee has been considering lately.

I am delighted that the Housing (Scotland) Bill has now been introduced, as per our commitment in the 2023-24 programme for government. The bill delivers on our new deal for tenants and represents a package of measures that will help to improve affordability through implementing a national system of rent controls alongside a range of other rented sector reforms. Together, those measures represent a robust package of additional rights and protections for tenants that will improve their experience of renting a home.

In addition, we are determined to tackle the negative and sometimes devastating effects on people’s lives of living with damp and mould. Although any instance of damp or mould is a cause for concern, I am heartened to see analysis of the latest Scottish house condition survey data, which we have shared with the committee. That shows that there has been no significant increase in the levels of condensation or mould across all tenures. However, we have noted a small increase in homes recorded as suffering from rising or penetrating damp. Those increased from 3 to 4 per cent between 2019 and 2022. That is why it was so important that urgent action was taken in the early part of this year.

The Scottish Housing Regulator, along with other stakeholders in the housing sector, responded to that issue through the publication of new guidance for the social sector. We also published updated statutory guidance on the repairing standard that covers the private rented sector. We will continue to consider what is necessary to tackle that scourge as we take forward work on cross-tenure standards. We are committed to tackling disrepair and driving a culture in which good maintenance is always given a high priority.

In response to the committee’s letter of 15 March, I provided, on 9 April, an update on the engagement with Aberdeen City Council on its rehoming programme due to there being reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete in its homes. We are continuing the work of our cross-sector working group on RAAC to understand the extent of RAAC in our housing stock, and we are engaging with landlords who have identified the presence of RAAC. We will keep in close contact with the Scottish Housing Regulator and local authorities that have taken the difficult decision to decant residents from their homes, and we will ensure that we understand the impacts of the long-term remediation plans, particularly on the home owners involved.

More broadly, I welcome the work that the committee has undertaken to carry out a review of the housing to 2040 strategy, and I look forward to seeing the report of its findings in due course. I have followed with interest the work so far through the committee’s evidence sessions, and I am pleased to note that stakeholders and members of the housing to 2040 strategic board generally appear to still agree with the strategy’s overall vision and aims. However, I appreciate and understand the concerns that have been raised concerning the challenging environment that the housing sector and local authorities face and the impact that that is having on delivery.

It is important to note that, when we published “Housing to 2040” in March 2021, we were in the depths of the Covid-19 pandemic, which was swiftly followed by the cost crisis and the fuel crisis, as well as the negative impact of Brexit on the construction supply chain, labour shortages and record-high inflationary pressures. That has been further compounded by a nearly 9 per cent real-terms fall in our United Kingdom capital funding for 2023 to 2028.

Of course, the Government cannot deliver the ambitions in “Housing to 2040” alone. We look forward to continuing our work with the housing to 2040 strategic board and the sector more widely to tackle the short-term challenges and maintain the longer-term path to delivering the strategies, aims and visions.

I hope that the committee has found this short update helpful.

Again, to come back to the issue of cladding—I am sure that this will come up next week—discussions are continuing with developers about the single building assessment process and how we take that issue forward. On that issue, I think that a number of amendments to the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill are being lodged by Mark Griffin and Miles Briggs and I imagine that there will be others. I think that discussions are continuing with developers on that. As the bill progresses and discussions go beyond it, that matter will be brought up and discussed. However, it is really important to speak to developers about that. There are on-going discussions about the SBA process, which we will touch on in more detail next week, I am sure. However, again, the issue that you mentioned could be considered as we get more into the depths of what the developers say on how we can work with them collaboratively. That is a really important point—that we work in partnership with them on that.

Not as yet, but we hope that we will get some kind of report, as I said, post the summer recess. We have had an indication that there will be an update in the autumn, so that could be between September and November.

With regard to local government, I have tried to get round to as many local authorities as I possibly can—I have about three to go, and then I will have been round all of them. The issue that comes up first and foremost is what they should prioritise. We are having discussions around the retrofitting agenda, and local authorities have prepared their local heat and energy efficiency strategies. What happens beyond that is the deliverability, which is due towards the end of this year. The green heat finance task force is looking broadly at how that work is financed—it is looking at local authorities and registered social landlords, and how those can be funded.

We are also talking about investment in new stock, and where that fits in. The repairing standard applies in that regard. One element of that is that local authorities should always, in preparing their budgets, be engaging on, and looking at, how that aspect fits in. For local authorities, the role is very different. The green heat and retrofitting agenda, and how authorities invest in that, or invest in new stock, is an on-going discussion, and there will be different solutions for different local authorities. They will prioritise what they need to in that regard. It is up to each local authority what it chooses to do around that point.

Having had 15 years of experience in local authorities, I know that that discussion came up every year. One would hope that a local authority would seek to ensure that priorities are updated every year. There was a maintenance backlog after Covid, on which local authorities are starting to catch up. Again, however, that is a decision for each local authority, and we are working with them on that.

On things such as damp and mould, for example—which you mentioned, convener—the Scottish Housing Regulator has a role, and there are discussions with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and ALACHO on that. Again, it depends on each local authority, and we are working with them on that. We have been working a wee bit with ALACHO on that point to ensure that it is picked up.

There is a broader issue with adaptations, which fits into the broader agenda. Each local authority probably knows more than anybody else about that in respect of their specific area, so we are working with local authorities individually and ensuring that local teams are working with them on that. However, it ultimately comes down to each local authority making its own decision on investment in retrofitting, for example.

The role for national Government is to work with local authorities in terms of funding for adaptations and so on, and we are working closely with the Scottish Housing Regulator, ALACHO and COSLA on the themes that emerge.