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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 May 2025
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Displaying 1235 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

Very much so. If people can do that in a small village with 400 or 500 houses, how do we move towards that? How do we do that in urban Glasgow or in the Highlands? We have talked before about the carbon neutral islands project up in Raasay, which had a conference a few months ago. The challenges were around how to look at that in a remote community. There are projects out there that are working really well with regard to sharing the standard and so on. That was really encouraging and it is great to see what people are doing. There are examples and I think that that work will continue to grow. How does the Government support that? How do we support local communities? That is a really important part, because the solution in Innerwick would be different from what it was in Raasay or in urban Glasgow or Edinburgh. That is a piece of work that we will need to keep an eye on, because people will see the opportunities around that. However, we need to make sure that the advice that we have out there grows to meet the growing demand.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

I come back to the point that the chancellor said that the UK Government would spend what is necessary, but there has been no funding. We continue to raise the issue with the UK Government, but nothing has been set aside; funding was not set aside in the budget.

Any answer would be hypothetical at this point, because we do not know what the options appraisal will say. I am happy to come back to the committee when we have more detail, such as from other local authorities. At this moment, anything would be hypothetical, because we do not know what any particular ask will be and whether any funding will come from the UK Government to address the matter. Obviously, the issue has continued to evolve in the rest of the UK, too. If there was additional funding from the UK Government and there were consequentials, that would change the situation but, at this moment, it is hard to indicate that when we do not know, and have not had any specific asks, about funding.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

There are a couple of important issues to mention, the first of which is data. In previous question sessions, we have talked about the data collection issues that arose during the pandemic. Local authorities are playing catch-up on that and will continue to do that work.

Secondly, social landlords are required by law to meet the housing standard, and the repairing standard statutory guidance sets out what private landlords need to do in that regard. If they are not meeting that standard, issues can be taken to the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland for determination.

Similarly, if the Scottish Housing Regulator does not think that local authorities are doing enough on damp and mould, for example, it can write to ask them for an action plan. We discuss that with the regulator on an on-going basis, and discussions with ALACHO and COSLA feed into that point. ALACHO has not specifically mentioned to me the issue that you raised, but I am happy to pick up that point with it and come back to the committee.

Guidelines exist and actions can be taken, and COSLA is catching up on data collection. In general, the figures that we referenced are standing still. We are working with ALACHO, COSLA and the regulator on how we take the issue forward.

I am happy to come back to the committee on the point that you mentioned and I can contact ALACHO about its specific concerns. I have not been made aware of the issue, but colleagues may be aware of it. I will speak to officials and come back to the committee.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

I come back to what I said in my opening statement. The strategy came out in 2021, and there was, at that particular point, no disagreement in that respect. Since I was made a minister a year ago, the board has met on, I think, two or three occasions, and obviously we regularly meet board members to discuss their own specific issues as well as broader matters.

Since 2021, we have had, as we have talked about, the pandemic as well as the cost of living crisis. There has been an impact; indeed, we have seen the impact on Scotland. The Office for National Statistics has said that, in the UK, around about one and a half million workers have been lost, and obviously, the construction sector will have been part of that. It means that, in Scotland, you would be talking about 150,000-ish people; again, that is just an estimate based on the share of the population. There has been an impact in that respect.

Construction inflation, too, has had a real impact. On my visits last summer, I was told that contracts might be there for a day or two, and then the prices had to change. Anecdotally, I have heard from speaking to developers that things have slowed down a little bit, but inflation is still high, and we have obviously had the cut to the capital budget.

The key point is that the situation has changed since the strategy was first set. The objectives are still there: we have set the 110,000 new homes target, and the review planned for 2026-27 has been brought forward to now. Work is on-going on that and the logistics are being worked out at the moment. As I have said publicly and will continue to say, the deliverability of all that is being reviewed and the stakeholders involved in the housing to 2040 strategy will be included. Indeed, we have said as much to them. The review will be carried out not just by Government but by stakeholders themselves, which I think is incredibly important.

I will bring in Joe Brown in a second to talk about the review, but I think that the issue of deliverability is really important. Things have changed; in fact, they have changed significantly from when the strategy came out. I do not think that anybody can say that they have not.

I want to come back to a couple of other issues with regard to what we do as we move forward, but I will bring in Joe Brown to talk about the deliverability review, what is happening in that respect, how it will work and how it will report back, and to give you a little bit more detail on how it will be worked on operationally, if that is okay.

10:30  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

I am happy to come back and discuss the report when it comes out, but we are very much taking an inclusive approach. Indeed, that is an important part of the review, because it means that it is not just the Scottish Government that is looking at this, but the stakeholders. As I have said, I am happy to come back to the committee at any point to discuss that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

I apologise. We are continuing to discuss what the indicators should be in that respect, and, again, I am happy to come back to the committee on that. Discussions are on-going.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

No—it will probably be before then. I do not want to commit to anything, as discussions are on-going, but I think that it would be before then.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

It is continuing to be developed, with a consultation coming out relatively shortly. Obviously, we will write to the committee about that particular point.

An issue that was raised through the housing to 2040 group was the forthcoming legislation and at what pace and at what time that would be coming forward, and we are continuing to take feedback on that. There will be consultations on the standards; we will write to the committee about the process and what it looks like, but work on the consultations on that matter is on-going.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

I mentioned the funding that was allocated this year as part of the £100 million of ending homelessness together funding. An additional £2 million was set aside and we negotiated and discussed with COSLA which local authorities needed it most—it is not my place to say which ones those are, but Edinburgh, for example, received part of that funding.

I talked about our work with Edinburgh and the fact that it is developing a housing emergency action plan. Officials are working with councils collectively on their needs and we are asking them specifically what they need. One of the key things that the City of Edinburgh Council talked about was employing another empty homes officer, and I think that that has started to make an impact. We are asking councils specifically what they need, and not just in terms of funding. The additional empty homes officer has already made a difference in Edinburgh.

I mentioned the work that we are doing with the other local authorities that have declared a housing emergency. We are working collaboratively with them as well. I disagree with your comment that we are not working closely with them. Officials will tell you that that is not the case. We are working very closely with them. I have a meeting with the City of Edinburgh Council either tomorrow or Thursday to talk about specific points. We are talking about their acquisitions. Last year, we set aside £60 million for acquisitions, and that has been picked up. Edinburgh has taken advantage of that.

We are also working very closely on the voids issue. Edinburgh acknowledges that it has far too many voids and we are working closely with it on what we need to do to get the figures down and to get empty homes back into use. We have a partnership approach with all local authorities that have declared a housing emergency. As I indicated, we are in discussions with ALACHO and COSLA on a more joined-up piece of work across Scotland and I hope that we will be able to come back with more details on that relatively shortly.

We need to do more about voids, empty homes and allocation policies. However, it comes back to building more homes. We have talked about that element, and we are talking about trying to flex up the financing around that. There are real opportunities to flex up the finance system to get more money into the sector—not to replace the grant system, but in addition to that.

You are seeing the likes of Ken Gibb say that more collaboration is needed between the Scottish and UK Governments. Ken is part of the housing investment task force. He has come to the committee previously and what he has to say is very much respected. He advises all four Governments on those matters.

We need to work with the sector on how we get more money into the sector to build more houses. We are working closely with the local authorities that are talking about that, including Edinburgh.

11:00  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance and Housing to 2040

Meeting date: 16 April 2024

Paul McLennan

I am also happy to discuss any issues about Edinburgh. We catch up regularly so I am happy to discuss those matters further.