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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 1362 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

There is a homelessness prevention and strategy group, which is co-chaired by COSLA and me. We talk to all the major stakeholders regularly, and they have input into the work of that group. The group can feed back and review this. We are working closely with COSLA on the detail and what it will look like.

We have undertaken work already, and we will continue to do so. Local authorities and other groups feed into that process. The further we get into the process, obviously, that will develop further. However, as I said, we work closely with COSLA on what resourcing will look like and about homelessness prevention overall. As we get further into detail—during the summer engagement, for example—we will start discussing what it will look like. We have reached out to local authorities and asked them for their assessments, which is what the financial memorandum was based on. We will continue to engage with COSLA and other stakeholders on that point. You are right that the bill has to be resourced; it is as simple as that. If it is not, it defeats the purpose of the bill. It has to be resourced properly.

We have engaged extensively with COSLA on that, and we will continue to do so. As I said, COSLA and I chair the homelessness prevention and strategy group, which has the major stakeholders involved in it.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I think that we touched on this earlier. Obviously, there are existing regulatory processes in place, but you are right that one of the key things—as Bob Doris mentioned—is the question of how we monitor them. We are in discussions with the Scottish Housing Regulator on what that might look like, and I am happy to write to the committee in more detail on the issue. It is right that, if we bring in this legislation, the committee or whoever should receive reports on how successful it has been.

Pamela McBride can say more about the discussions with the regulator.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

When we surveyed local authorities, we asked them to be as open and honest as they could be about that. That survey was conducted and concluded last December, and the information that we have is based on what was sent in. One of the key things with developing the statutory guidance and the training will be the cost, and we have talked about co-ordination and what will be required in that regard.

I suppose that the challenge to local authorities—which have quite rightly challenged me, too—is to say what that will actually look like once we get into the detail of the bill. I should also say that the financial memorandum was based on the information that we got back from local authorities. I will continue to work with COSLA on the homelessness prevention and strategy group, which I chair with Councillor Chalmers. We will continue to develop these matters, and if we need to look at the financial memorandum again and amend it, we will do so. That issue will be covered in our detailed discussions.

I say again that we based the financial memorandum on the survey information that we got back from local authorities, and, if we need to review it as the bill develops, we will do so.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Our decision will be based on the discussions that we will have over the summer. I will discuss the matter with officials. Pamela McBride might want to come in on that point, as she did a lot of work on the survey, but, as I have said, we based the financial memorandum on the information that we got from local authorities. If this is what local authorities need, we will continue to discuss the issue with COSLA.

You are right that it does us no service if we cannot resource this—it will just worsen the situation, to be quite honest with you. We have based the financial memorandum on what we have been told, but, as we move further into the bill process, we will continue to monitor the matter and, if we need to change it, we will do so. We would need to discuss that with officials at the relevant time, because if we needed to amend it, we would want to do so at the best time to ensure that we were not having to amend it again another three months down the line. That is important.

Pamela McBride might want to touch on the work that we did and the survey.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Yes, I am happy to do so and to write to the committee on the matter. We have touched, broadly, on the kind of things that we will be looking at—for example, sequencing; the training and guidance that will be required; and co-ordination, which I think has been mentioned. I think that Katy Clark asked for this, too, but I am happy to come back to the committee after the summer if you want to have a quick evidence session on what we have learned from our engagement.

As I have said, I am happy to write to the committee on Mr Stewart’s point, but sequencing, resourcing, training and co-ordination will be the main things that we will discuss with stakeholders over that time. As, I think, Mr Stewart mentioned, we have already had extensive discussions with COSLA, Crisis, the Cyrenians, Shelter and other organisations, and officials meet those groups on a daily basis.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I think that the legal frameworks are different. I had a meeting with the Scottish Association of Landlords this week, and that was one of the issues that came up. The association is doing a lot of work. You are talking about individual owners as well as landlords who own five or 10 properties, so trying to embed that into the system is much more difficult. However, the association is keen to work with us on that particular point, and we will continue to work with it on that. It will provide guidance for its members in relation to that work in conjunction with us, but it becomes more difficult when you are dealing with individual owners. However, as I said, the association is keen to work with us on that and develop it. The private rented sector is a really important sector, but it cannot be exempt from the work that needs to be done, particularly around domestic abuse.

More generally, that work becomes important with regard to joint tenancies. The issues around joint tenancies can be quite difficult—for example, if someone is looking to move away. In the work that we are doing on domestic abuse, we are also talking about the joint tenancies part of things. Again, we are working very closely with the association on that and we discussed that with it during the week. It is developing guidelines and working with us, and it recognises that it needs to address that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I will bring in Pamela McBride in a second, because I have not done a lot of work on that.

There are probably two ways in which that assessment has been presented and there are two different versions. One is the easy-read one for the public and there is also some more detailed information. It has taken a little bit longer than we thought it would take, so I apologise for that. There is some other information that will come out about that particular point.

One of the key things that Homeless Network Scotland said is that equalities goes all the way through that—we have touched on the issue of equalities in domestic abuse. That will always be the case. As we develop that work over the summer, that must and always will be there.

I will bring Pamela in to talk about the work that has been done on that particular point and what is likely to be done in the next few weeks.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I would be happy to write to the committee about that specific point.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Part of that comes back to community planning, although it is almost outwith the remit of the bill. It is about how local authorities set up their community planning frameworks so that housing and homelessness are included. That could be done through local authorities’ community planning partnerships or a thematic group. The Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee has heard mixed views on that. We can enact legislation, but the way that local authorities and, more broadly, community planning partners take part in the process is important. It feeds into the point about how we tackle the issues, because the closer that the partnership between local authorities and communities is, the easier it will be to make sure that these things work.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I will ask Catriona MacKean to come in on that. I will write to the committee and will speak to the relevant minister about it. You are right in saying that the provisions in the 2021 act need to be in force in order to help us to do what we need to do. Scottish Women’s Aid has also raised that point with us.