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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 1235 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

On whether that would fit in the bill, the issue is slightly more complex than that. If we are talking about seasonal agricultural workers, an aspect of that is where responsibility sits. I will touch on that in a second. Mairi Gougeon and I will be meeting Richard Leonard very soon to discuss seasonal agricultural workers, and others have raised the issue, too.

More broadly, the issue is to do with identifying key workers. I have visited various places where accommodation is an issue, particularly during the summer tourism season. Should that be a matter for local authorities to address when they look at their key worker strategies? I am encouraging local authorities to look at that and take a strategic approach. That is one way to look at the issue. It comes back to the accommodation issue, although that is not so much about seasonal workers as it is about construction workers. As I said, Mairi Gougeon and I have a meeting coming up with Richard Leonard about seasonal and agricultural workers in particular.

On key workers and on seasonal workers more broadly, we would encourage local authorities to look strategically at what they need to do, to discuss that and to come forward with any proposals. We have had a number of round-table events with accommodation providers, including hoteliers, and other organisations to talk about what we need to do. The issue needs to be discussed. Some reports on accommodation came out, I think, last week. We cannot have people staying in accommodation such as the examples that are raised in those reports.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

We have touched on that. One of the key points was to provide flexibility around the individual circumstances of each of the local authorities, which is important. With regard to looking at possible amendments or changes to the bill, that has given us the flexibility at this stage to discuss with local authorities what is required.

That comes back to the balance around protection. The whole purpose of rent controls is to ensure that we protect people who need those controls in place, while not deterring investment. It is about trying to strike a balance in that regard, and reflecting the impacts on individual local authorities, or wider regional impacts, at that particular time. That was an important reason. I am happy to come back at stage 2 to discuss any amendments to the bill. It is about giving more flexibility to ensure that rent controls do not try to provide a one-size-fits-all answer.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I am sorry: I meant Charlotte McHaffie. The timing is still to be confirmed, but it is important that we learn the lessons. Covid was a challenge that we did not expect at the time, obviously, and we had to deal with it. We need to consider the issue, Mr Coffey, because it is an important part of the refreshed look at the bill. At that time, when the emergency legislation was brought in, we knew that there were lessons to learn. I will bring Charlotte in on that point.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I will bring in Charlotte McHaffie in a second.

I think that the tribunals service allows both tenants and landlords to have representation, which can come from a friend, a family member or someone from the third sector. I am aware of cases in which the likes of Shelter have taken part. Charlotte might want to touch on that.

This might relate to the discussion about tenants’ rights and whether they are aware of what is available to them. That goes back to what Ms Roddick asked about whether we should ensure that tenants are aware of their rights. Charlotte may want to touch on that. She can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that they have the ability to do that. We will consider how to support tenants who go to the tribunal so that they are aware of that right, but I think that that right is available.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

From my experience as a councillor I say that support tends primarily to come from Shelter or other third sector organisations. A case would have to be incredibly complex to go to court. I found in almost all circumstances that Shelter had the expertise to help people.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

On the point about reasonableness, the landlord would have to say what the grounds or reasons were for saying no. There is a balance, and that will be fleshed out in the detailed regulations. You are right that it is about striking that balance, but the landlord would have to give reasonable grounds for saying no.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

The prisons inspectorate would look at the SHORE standards with regard to specific points around the prisons.

We are in discussions with the Scottish Housing Regulator about what that scrutiny looks like, and building on that is one of the key things. You are right that there is no point in just saying that we are trying to get improvement. How do we evaluate that? How do we monitor that? That is the important part. For example, we talked with the Prison Service about remand prisoners. What does it need to do when prisoners are released early? What do we do about that? Again, some of that is about what the prisons inspectorate does and how we work with the housing regulator. We are in discussion with them about what happens at that particular moment. I will maybe ask Catriona MacKean or Matt Howarth to comment on that particular point. We are engaging with the housing regulator to ask how we evaluate and monitor that.

Again, some of the key things will be about getting figures from the local authorities and engaging with them on a local basis about how important that is. We are in discussion with the housing regulator to make sure that the standards that we expect—and how we measure and evaluate them—will be part of the discussions going forward.

I do not know whether Catriona MacKean or Matt Howarth have anything to add on that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

You will know from dealing with people when they arrive at that point that nobody wants to be homeless. Some people arrive there very quickly for various reasons. One of the key aspects of the wider discussions that we have had with the likes of the Scottish Prison Service is how we deal with prisoners who are leaving prison. If we do not deal with that, particularly for remand prisoners, they will end up sleeping on a friend’s couch or sleeping rough. One of the key things is to avoid that situation.

It is also about trying to engage with the NHS at a local level. It is not so much about discussing stigma as it is about making sure that, in dealing with people who are at that point, we give them the respect that they deserve, which comes back to the crux of the matter. We cannot have people leaving prison and going to sleep on a friend’s couch or sleeping rough. That is why we are trying to deal with remand prisoners in a way that solves that issue by changing the period from two months to six months.

It is the same when it comes to domestic abuse. Women suffer stigma because of domestic abuse. If we identify potential homelessness in domestic abuse cases over six months rather than two months, that will allow us to deal with such situations more quickly and manage them in the best way possible. We talked about the fund to leave, which was brought in. We worked closely with Women’s Aid on giving women the ability to leave by providing them with funds. It is about building on that work and managing the situation rather than people getting into a position where they quickly become homeless. It is literally a crisis situation at that particular point. The stigma issue is dealt with as part of the whole thing. It is about trying to plan as much as possible, and moving from the two-month period to the six-month period, as well as the legal obligations, gives us the ability to do that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

We have had round-table meetings, so the subject has been discussed. We have had two or three of those, if I remember correctly. There has been direct involvement of landowners.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

Yes. It has to. I return to the point that all 32 local authorities are different. We need to try to get the right approach across Scotland.