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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 February 2026
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Displaying 1445 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Paul McLennan

Perhaps Sarah Angus can come in on this, too. The key point is that this is almost what you might call failure demand. If the prevalence rate is 60 to 90 per cent as opposed to 5 to 10 per cent, it means that we are having to deal with the symptoms before we can actually get to the causes. I do not know about the work that goes on where you are, Sarah, but, to me, that seems to be a key focus. Of course, rehabilitation is incredibly important, too.

I will come to you first, Sarah, and then open it up to others.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Paul McLennan

Yes. Even within schools, different approaches are taken. One teacher will have a better understanding than others of what adjustments might be required, so the approach varies from class to class. There is no uniform school policy, never mind a local authority policy, on the issue.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Paul McLennan

That is an important point. I engage with parents and I know that, if the kid leaves school or does not go to school—that is perhaps the case more in secondary—it is then very difficult, if the reasonable adjustments are not made, for the kid to go back into school. Quite often, rather than going to school, they will either be home educated or simply not have schooling at all, which can become a real issue.

We also had a discussion on that, Dorry. I do not know what you find in your area.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 17 February 2026

Paul McLennan

That is an important point. Although it is about the child, the whole family is impacted. That comes back to Jenny Miller’s point about being as collaborative and as inclusive as possible right at the start; and, as Bill Colley said, it is also about co-production right at the start.

Rob, what is your experience? For me, this is a fundamental approach that we need to consider.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 10 February 2026

Paul McLennan

I am the MSP for East Lothian. I was previously a councillor in East Lothian for 15 years.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 10 February 2026

Paul McLennan

The other point—I will open this up to see who else wants to come in—is that a culture change is required. Support is one thing, but do we need legislation? That is something that we need to look at. We can try to change culture and we can provide financial support, but if the culture to do that does not exist in an organisation, it becomes very difficult. Do we need legislation to make sure that all work areas are covered?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 10 February 2026

Paul McLennan

That is important. As we heard when we visited the Salvesen Mindroom Centre, retention rates are lower among people with neurodiversity. That should not be the case, but it is at the moment.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 10 February 2026

Paul McLennan

I will ask my question, and I have a comment as well. We have had various discussions, at council and other levels, about the key issue of how we triage. That is almost about who comes first. We have all talked about the increasing numbers, but how we triage is a very important question.

There is also a question about assessing demand. We have seen demand increase in the past number of years. Will there be an exponential increase in the next few years as well? It is important to consider what we need to do in the current situation, but we also need to think about what we do in three, four or five years, if the numbers increase.

I do not know who wants to answer that question. I might come in on the back of the answers, very briefly.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 10 February 2026

Paul McLennan

I know that we need to move on, but I do not know whether anyone saw the article on BBC News this morning about mainstreaming compared with specialism. That is a whole other debate, but the article was really interesting in setting out the different perspectives on specialism and mainstreaming. That is perhaps an issue for the committee to talk about, because the article was really relevant.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Neurodivergence

Meeting date: 10 February 2026

Paul McLennan

I had the pleasure of visiting the Salveson Mindroom Centre a couple of weeks ago. One of the key things that came through was that the employers that are involved tend to be larger employers. We may be talking about smaller businesses as well, but larger employers have the capacity to take the issue on and organise their organisations around support for those with neurodiversity. How do we ensure that there is a standard approach across different sizes of business? It is easier for a large business to take the issue on. How difficult is it for a small or medium-sized enterprise? That issue came through very clearly. It is important that we have a standard approach.

The other thing to mention in terms of support is how difficulties are picked up. Someone’s neurodiversity might not be apparent at the outset of their employment. There were a few examples of people who were subsequently diagnosed with neurodiversity, and that diagnosis changed their relationship with their employer.