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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 1235 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

The Grenfell response has come out, but there is work beyond that. I am happy to keep the committee up to date, if members think that that would be relevant.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I will bring in Stephen Garvin on the other point, which is the most important to come out of the Grenfell inquiry.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

Before Alan comes in, it is important to note the broader concept of fire engineers’ work in relation to Grenfell.

I ask Alan to cover the specific work that we are engaging on, because SBAs are about more than just fire engineering.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

The Government is committed to implementing Awaab’s law for private tenants as well. There are existing powers, which we must ensure are used to the maximum extent. It is part of the engagement with the private rented sector. I have raised the issue with the Scottish Association of Landlords on a number of occasions, so it is aware of our commitment in that regard, and we will engage with the organisation.

I am happy to come back on the two points relating to social housing and to the private rented sector, but we are committed to having Awaab’s law for the private rented sector as well.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

There are powers in the existing legislation, but they are not always used. One of the key things is to ensure that we use existing powers. If we bring in Awaab’s law—as I said, we are committed to introducing Awaab’s law for private tenants as well—we must do so in consultation. For individual landlords, there will be a slightly different approach to how we do that. We are discussing that with the Scottish Association of Landlords, including what its role is and how we ensure that individual landlords are aware of the requirements.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I will speak to the more general point and then come on to the specifics. The Government recognises the challenges that tenants are facing. I will bring Stephen Garvin in in a second. Our broader approach to RAAC includes housing, but it is about the wider issue across Scotland—there have been a couple of issues with it in my local authority, including Preston Lodge high school and the Brunton theatre in Musselburgh. We have taken a much broader approach than the UK Government and we have looked at the NHS, schools and right across the sector; I will bring Stephen Garvin in on that point. That faced the challenges, and we worked very closely with the regulator on that point, and I was on a building safety group that was chaired by the cabinet secretary.

10:00  

Obviously, we expect all social landlords to ensure that their tenants are accommodated safely. There are a number of issues. I have engaged with Aberdeen City Council, for example, and West Lothian Council, over their approach to RAAC. In Aberdeen, obviously, it was slightly different. RAAC can impact on properties in different ways. In Aberdeen, the properties will have to be demolished. There is a mix of private and social tenure. We have had numerous meetings. I am heading up to Aberdeen at the beginning of May to meet tenants and residents to discuss that point. We worked very closely with the people at Aberdeen City Council. Because they had to decant very quickly, we have had to engage with them very quickly, to make sure that there are properties for people to move into. That approach is slightly different from the approaches of West Lothian, Dundee and other areas. We have engaged with all that. The officials will engage with all RSLs and local authorities on that as we go ahead.

If there are any specific examples about furniture, I will be happy to pick up that point. I had not heard of that particular case but, if there are examples, I can pick those up and come back to you.

I will bring in Stephen Garvin, then I want to add a few things on our general approach to RAAC, not just when it comes to housing but more broadly.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I have read that, but not the actual specifics about where it is and so on. I am happy to pick that up.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I am aware of the petition on that, and I am sure that I will be asked to speak to the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee at the appropriate stage.

There are a couple of things to say about the remit of the Scottish Housing Regulator. The regulator was created by the Housing (Scotland) Act 2010, and it is an independent regulator for all landlords. One of its statutory objectives is to safeguard and promote the interests of current and future tenants of social landlords and other users of social landlord services.

The regulator regulates the performance of housing services, and a key aspect involves picking up issues with RAAC. When we were first made aware of that issue, which affects buildings across the UK, the regulator had a key part to play in engaging with social landlords. The approach that we took was much more extensive than the one that was taken in the rest of the UK, and that was the correct approach. We looked at housing across all sectors, as well as NHS and education buildings. The regulator played an important part in that. It comes back to the point that there was no further obligation for homes that were sold under the right-to-buy scheme, but local authorities have the role of ensuring that the housing in their area meets the relevant standards.

I am sure that the petition will continue to go through the parliamentary process and, depending on what is raised by the petitioner, we will respond accordingly. I will not pre-empt what that committee or the petitioner will say, but I am sure that I will be asked to speak to that committee at an appropriate stage. I am happy to come back to this committee at that point.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

On the open call for residents, one key thing that I mentioned in my statement to the Parliament was increasing the pace and the breadth of the work. We have discussed that with local authorities, and I spoke to all the housing conveners at that point to talk about our approach.

That sits alongside the work that we are already doing. We are doing work with assessments. We are leading that, but developers are also involved. The main thing—I think that I have previously mentioned this—is to empower and enable home owners and their representatives or social landlords to take a lead role in the assessment and remediation of their buildings, with support from the Scottish Government grant fund. We have also had discussions with factors on that point.

Since the open call was launched just four weeks ago, there have been 32 expressions of interest in getting support for an SBA. That is quite positive, and the number is rising daily.

You mentioned identifying buildings following the Grenfell tower fire in June 2017. Those have been identified through a number of measures. We carried out a data collection exercise—the high-rise inventory—in 2021. There was also a high-pressure laminate cladding exercise. Those identified a number of buildings with potentially flammable cladding. Our call for participants in our pilot programme also identified a number of buildings with potentially flammable cladding. A number of other buildings have been identified as owners have come forward through the single open-call process.

We have written to local authorities, and I have engaged with local authorities’ heads of housing on that point. That was part of the statement that we made last month. We continue to engage with local authorities as we progress that work. The initial feedback that we have had about the expressions of interest has been positive since the open call was launched about four weeks ago.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I will say a couple of things on that. I have said on a number of occasions that the process of identifying cladding-related issues across Scotland has been far too slow, and I will touch on the actions that we are taking in that regard. Work to assess, mitigate and remediate is already under way through a number of avenues. We have published information via the high-rise inventory that shows that work is now under way on just under half—11 out of 23—of high-rise buildings that are owned by a local authority and have been identified as having combustible cladding. We are surveying local authorities to validate the data and confirm the status of buildings where remediation has not previously been reported. That is key.

We have also confirmed that all 107 entries in the Scottish Government pilot programme are progressing on an appropriate pathway of assessment, which will lead to mitigation or remediation works. We received the fire engineer outturn report immediately before Easter weekend, and officials are currently rapidly considering it.

Scottish Government-led assessment is progressing on 13 works. Urgent interim measures, such as waking watches, are taking place for six entries, and one entry has had external wall cladding removed. When we have been made aware of the need to take immediate action, we have done so. For instance, we have invested more than £6.7 million in mitigation works for one entry that was cited.

As I have said, I have no doubt that the length of time that it took to identify such issues was disappointing, hence why we are taking action to move things forward. We have been very sensitive to the concerns of affected home owners and residents, and I have met people from across Scotland on a number of occasions.

The statutory framework that we lacked previously, which includes a robust SBA process, has been in place since January. We must now greatly increase the pace. I have previously spoken in a statement to the Parliament about the open call and the breadth of our work on cladding. I am sure that that will come up later.

That is what we have resolved to do. I have said previously in the Parliament and to the committee that the pace was far too slow, but we are now taking action. We have passed the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill and put in place the SBA process. We also have the developer remediation programme. That is all in place. We have an indicative budget of £52 million for this year, which is a big increase in spending. We have in place everything that is needed to increase the pace in tackling the issue.