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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 November 2025
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Displaying 1362 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I am not sure how to follow that.

I have a more general question about the UNCRC, which Lynne O’Brien touched on. Several respondents have commented on the drafting of sections 1 and 2, on aftercare, and section 10, on the register of foster carers, which amend the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. As that is pre-devolution UK legislation, it falls outwith the scope of the UNCRC.

What are your views on that small but important point? Significant issues could be created if we do not get that aspect right. I will come to Lynne first, as she raised the issue.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I do not know whether anyone else wants to address that point, which is an important one.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

How can the Scottish Government ensure that the provisions have a positive impact on care-experienced people, and how do you suggest that work to decide on the definition should be progressed? Like George Adam, I was a councillor for 15 years, and as an MSP, I have met care-experienced youngsters and those going through transition. There is a real issue around what support they have and how much they are listened to as care-experienced people. Some of them have been in the system for a year, some have been in the system for five or 10 years, but they gave strong feedback that they are not being listened to more broadly.

You mentioned earlier broadening out the definition of care. From your experience, what lessons can be learned, and what are your views?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Jo Derrick, what are your thoughts on the aftercare point that Duncan Dunlop has just made? I asked also about the definition of care experience, but the aftercare point is also really important. I know that we have had previous discussions about that, but what are your thoughts on the bill and on that point?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

That is a really important point, and it goes right through this issue. Natalie, do you want to add anything?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I will move on, and I will ask Duncan Dunlop to respond to this question first. Some of the submissions to the committee said that there needs to be clarity on the bill’s proposal for guidance in relation to care experience to ensure that it is effective. You touched on that earlier. There was also a range of views about who should be included in any proposed definition.

How can the Scottish Government ensure that the provisions have a positive impact on care-experienced people, and how do you suggest work to decide on a definition—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Duncan Dunlop has mentioned advocacy and Jo Derrick has spoken about aftercare, and both have made important points. I previously used an example of kids who are about 15 or 16 who were ready for the transition. They had issues with housing and concerns about what their next step in life would be, and very little support was provided. Getting that start in life could have made a huge impact on them.

There is another question about geographical differences. The care that someone will be provided will be very different in rural Aberdeenshire or the Highlands and Islands compared to urban Glasgow and Edinburgh. We have not really discussed that, but we need to ensure that the level of care, support and advocacy is not impacted by geography.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

My question is on some general points. Who Cares? Scotland, The Promise Scotland and the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland commented on the drafting of sections 1 and 2, on aftercare. Laura Pasternak, you mentioned that issue, as well as the issue of section 10’s amendment of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 in relation to the register of foster carers. Of course, the 1995 act is pre-devolution UK legislation that falls outwith the scope of the UNCRC, as you noted. What are your views on how that section has been drafted, and what might be done at stage 2 to bring it into scope?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Jo, do you have any views on the point about the UNCRC in the context of aftercare?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Margaret Smith, in previous meetings, we have heard about the role of advocacy and about whether it should be independent. We see people who are care experienced going on to be advocates for people who are entering or coming out of the system.

What are your thoughts are on that point? I think that it is very relevant. Like George Adam, I was a councillor for 15 years, so I have seen that role close up. What are your thoughts on that?