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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 1379 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Paul McLennan

The question is about taking up roles in the sectors. As you said, education seems to be one, but we are talking about 2 per cent of the population. I have spoken to constituents before about some of the issues they have with healthcare, for example, so I am interested in making sure that there is representation across all the sectors. Are we looking back and evaluating that, or could we consider doing that going forward?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Paul McLennan

Good morning, Deputy First Minister. I have a couple of questions, and I am conscious of the time.

One question is on issues of data and disaggregating data, and I will come back to you for your thoughts on that one. One of the other key issues relates to education, health and justice. It was suggested that better support for BSL users would include people who encourage BSL users to take up roles in those areas. How can we encourage that to happen in the future? The issue is a little about the data, but probably more on encouraging BSL users into the roles where they can make a real impact.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Paul McLennan

It is not a major point, but I think it is important that we pick it up. If you could come back to us, that would be great.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

British Sign Language Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 December 2025

Paul McLennan

On the specific point of encouraging BSL users to take up the roles, do we monitor that at the moment, or is that something we can monitor or target? We can encourage it, but how do we evaluate that in five or 10 years’ time, if we are asking whether something has been raised? Are we making sure we are accomplishing that going forward?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Paul McLennan

I will speak just to my amendment 36, which would amend the bill in relation to the provision for the SFC to appoint co-opted members. Amendment 36 is a small change that would make it clear that the terms and conditions on which co-opted members of the SFC are appointed would include any remuneration and allowances that they are to receive. I hope that the committee can support that clarification of the bill.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Paul McLennan

That is an ideal way to finish, convener. Thank you very much.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Paul McLennan

I am conscious that we are probably already over time, but there are a couple of key things for me.

In your introduction, you talked about the participation strategy. When it comes down to it, the work you do is all about people and the lived experience. We can all talk about the politics and whatever else, but the work is all about people and how it impacts on their lives. A key question for me is: how can you use lived experience going forward? We have had various evidence sessions, and what really strikes me is when people tell us how something has individually impacted on them. How do you bring that lived experience into the work that you continue to do?

I agree with you that there is a role for us all. If we are talking about the broader equalities agenda, it is political, but it is political for all of us. It is obviously more so for the Government, but it is politically on all of us to make sure that we bring in lived experience. The political discourse on equalities is just awful at the moment, so can you say more about how we make the lived experience as real as possible?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Paul McLennan

Thank you—it is key.

My final question is: if we are sitting here five years from now and having the same kind of session, what does success look like in what the Scottish Government does, what the Parliament does and what the wider public sector does? Where do we want to get to for the Government, for Parliament and for the wider Scottish public sector?

I know that that is a big question, but what does success look like in a few key objectives? It is on all of us as Government, as parliamentarians and the wider public sector to act, and we want to be able to say, “You told us five years ago that we had to deliver on this; it is up to every single one of us to deliver for you.”

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Paul McLennan

Jan, would you like to add anything?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Paul McLennan

That is the key thing for us all and, as I said, it is a challenge that we need to accept as parliamentarians. If we are back here in five years, asking the same questions, and we have failed, it will be a failure on us all. It is not just on the Government or Parliament; it would be a failure on us all.