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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 1523 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

I have probably made my point about the vast ranges. Both Charlie Devine and Jim Jack alluded to behavioural changes, and that is the element of uncertainty in the bill.

I want to pick up on something that my colleague John Mason asked about earlier. He used the terminology “good” and “bad”, but I am going to make it a little more academic and ask how much confidence you have in the estimates on a scale of zero to 10, where zero is no confidence and 10 is high confidence. I think that I can fairly reflect that you have expressed considerable uncertainty about what they mean for you, so this is not meant to be about apportioning blame; I am just trying to reflect where we are in the process. What number would each of you give for the FM where zero is “nul points”, literally, and 10 is a high degree of confidence?

10:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

Is that a four, then, to be specific?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

Exactly—that is why I am asking for a number.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

You have led me on to my final question. In an ideal world, where would we go from here, recognising all the evidence that you have given this morning? In relation to co-design, which the convener mentioned earlier, what would you ideally like to happen to get to something that will up those scores, whereby we can all have more confidence in the FM?

I fully accept the different points that you have made about uncertainty, the complexity of this work and the role of councils. Fundamentally, do we need a continued exercise of co-design and the production of an updated FM, or are you happy for the extra work to slip under secondary legislation? If you had a choice, which approach would you choose and why?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

That is an option.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

Do you have a final comment, Jim?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

Charlie and Jim, what numbers would you give?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

I will come on to that. My question is for either Kirsty McGuire or Jim Jack. Where is the range or number of ranges that are so vast by quantum that you think that they are almost worse than useless? You have put a lot of information on the table today, but I am trying to establish where the ranges are so vast that you think, “Well, this now becomes largely meaningless.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

No, no—I am not looking for anything in particular. I am just trying to get a measure on the table. You can choose between four and five. It is not a trick question.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Michelle Thomson

I put the same question to Kirsty McGuire and Jim Jack. What do you think should happen now to move us on from where we are, in terms of co-design or secondary legislation?