The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 2063 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
No. Perhaps I am not being clear, but, for example, there will always be money for transport, because everything would fall apart if folk could not travel from A to B. So, the Scottish Government is able to say, “Within an envelope, we are going to be spending roughly X to Z on transport.” You are not thinking, “I wonder if we will get any money for transport next year.” You are making working assumptions about money that will be in the budget.
What I am saying is, why can you not—or will you not—ring fence money that goes into other areas that you know bring economic growth in the same way you would do for transport? Not everything is on a year-by-year basis. You ring fence money for councils and leave them to manage those in-year budget challenges, but you do not ring fence money for particular areas in your own portfolio, despite the vagaries of all the stuff that is happening.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
For the sake of other committee members I will not labour the point, but I want to pick up on AME versus DEL for pension contributions, which is something that Claire Hughes mentioned earlier. I find it staggering, from a Treasury perspective, that pensions have been going through DEL, given their type and nature. How did we get to that position? That surely cannot be the case for other budgets coming out of Whitehall. It seems staggering.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
That was just out of interest. Thank you.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
I will turn to a practical point. I hear what you are saying very clearly. For the record, the quality submissions that you have submitted have been very helpful. We read them all, even though they are extensive.
The planned date for our stage 1 report is December, and we will then have 11 working weeks before the Parliament goes into dissolution for the election that is coming down the line. I would like to hear your reflections on what can be done in the time that we have. Given the timescales and having listened to what you are saying, I think that we are really up against it.
I fully accept the premise that something has to be done, and the bill is something. In other words, all the other people who were party to the issues at Grenfell are getting off scot free. I also hear what you say about not having the hard data to properly estimate the behavioural effects.
However, thinking about the timescales and assuming that the bill gets past stage 1 okay, we will have 11 weeks to try to amend the bill. How practical do you think that is? Bearing in mind what you say about behavioural stuff, if you had to pick your top two or three things that have to be changed or done, what would they be? I would like your sense of where we are at. Fionna, I will come to you first.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
You should see how many other bills there are.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
What underpins all of that is the fact that we have a fixed budget.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
One person’s tinkering is another person’s agility.
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
However, the Scottish Government says to local government—and you can track the numbers—that an aggregate percentage has to be ring fenced for an entire session’s policy priority. If you can do that for local government, why can you not do it for yourself, as fiscal discipline?
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
That is my point. I am sorry if we have been at cross purposes. The scenario that you are illustrating for the Scottish Government is the same for local government, yet the Scottish Government will choose to make ring-fenced spending allocations in order to ensure that policy commitments are met and to allow a sufficiently long-term basis for that spending in order to see the outcomes at the other end. My question, or my challenge, to you is, that if you understand that a slightly longer-term picture is needed in that case, and you are saying, “Right. You just need to manage all these other moving parts,” why will you not apply that to the Scottish Government in the areas where we know it would give material benefit on a longer-term basis?
Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Michelle Thomson
When is it ever less than expected?