I will bring in David Eiser shortly, but I first want to bring out Susan Murray’s important point about what we can do. Although I recognise and agree with the point about the role of private businesses, perhaps the Government can use conditionality. People are talking about that much more frequently, often in relation to net zero, but it could be used much more. We have business organisations that do not even routinely disaggregate their data by gender and then interrogate that, which seems to me to be utterly fundamental.

Both of the other witnesses can come back in after I have given David Eiser a chance to comment, but my point is that it is incumbent on us to try to assist with potential policy options or ideas. Like Susan Murray, I like to keep things simple, so for me it is about what the difference would be that makes a difference, while recognising the huge complexity. David, do you have any thoughts to add on this area?

Post-Covid, there is an opportunity for everyone to think differently.

Does any of the other witnesses have any final reflections on any of the themes that I have touched on?

My first question is quite technical and follows on from our discussion about recognising the whole fiscal landscape. I am genuinely interested in the service concession approach. The joint submission states:

“This is not merely an accounting exercise—it has genuine implications for funding Local Government services into the future”.

It goes on to highlight opportunities in that regard, such as the ability to “invest in assets” and “deliver on net zero”. If those are the opportunities, what are the risks of the approach?

Secondly, are your concerns about the Scottish Government’s review to do with the fact that there is a review, or are you concerned about the timescale, because you would like to see a clear outcome sooner rather than later? I suspect that my question is for Alan Russell initially, but Gail Macgregor might want to come in, too.

Thank you.

I am sorry to interrupt. You have given a clear description of what the issue is about. You used the term “anomaly”. To draw you back to my question, I understand what you are talking about, but what I am trying to draw out is whether there are any risks to the Scottish Government of enabling the service concession approach. You have been clear that there will be no additional costs. I am trying to explore whether you have identified any additional risks.

We cannot see Chris on the screen. Perhaps his connection has dropped out again.

I have a last wee question for Nora Senior and a general question for everyone. I will run them together.

Nora Senior and I would agree that competitiveness in business is important. The recent Cumberford-Little report, which was commissioned by the Scottish Government, emphasised a shift towards excellence in skills rather than the focus on competence that we have at the moment. To what extent do you agree with those statements in the report?

What is SDS’s view on how to best keep the knowledge and skills of Government agencies current in the light of the huge global challenges and changes of Brexit and Covid and so on? Has SDS, for example, instigated its own programme of change for its skills base as we emerge from Brexit and Covid? Those are two separate areas, but I am aware of the time.

I have a couple of questions for all the witnesses, which I will run together. First, I will pick up on Colin Beattie’s question regarding international skills. Has the Fraser of Allander Institute or Skills Development Scotland undertaken specific recent analysis comparing Scotland’s skills system to those of our major trading nations, as set out in “A Trading Nation—a plan for growing Scotland’s exports”? In other words, how do we know that Nora Senior’s comment that our skills system is looked on as “best in class” is true?

Secondly, I hold a personal view that international benchmarking is necessary for Scotland’s skills system. Do you agree with that personal view and, if not, why not?

I think that you must have guessed the second area that I want to explore, because it is modern apprenticeships, funnily enough. I am looking at SDS’s most recent quarterly report on modern apprenticeships. Since joining the Parliament, I have been looking at the theme of the different consideration that is given to the role of women, whether in business or skills. I worked out that, comparing the first quarters of 2019-20 and 2021-22, there has been a decline in female enrolments from 47 per cent to 45 per cent. I then looked at the figures for my area, which is Falkirk, where there has been a more dramatic fall from 45 per cent to 35 per cent. That led me to consider what the gaps might be in how we are going about getting women enrolled. Does Chris Brodie or Lisa Pattoni have any thoughts about the reasons for that?

Does anyone else want to come in on those two questions?