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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 1353 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

We move on to questions from Marie McNair, who joins us remotely.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

Welcome back, and I welcome to the meeting our second panel. Kaukab Stewart, the Minister for Equalities, is accompanied by the following Scottish Government officials: Nick Bland, deputy director, mainstreaming and inclusion; Catherine McMeeken, deputy director, equality; and Jennifer Singerman, solicitor, equalities and criminal justice division. Thank you for attending this morning.

For the benefit of those who were not here at the beginning of the meeting, I remind members that rule 7.5.1 of the Parliament’s standing orders prevents members from referring to any matter in relation to which legal proceedings are active, except to the extent permitted by the Presiding Officer. I advise members that Sandie Peggie’s employment tribunal case against NHS Fife is active for the purposes of the sub judice rule and contempt of court. I have sought and received permission from the Presiding Officer about the extent to which we can explore matters related to the case today and throughout the course of our PSED inquiry. On the basis of that permission, questions about issues connected to the case will be admissible today, but questions about the specifics of the case will not.

Before we move to questions from committee members, I invite the minister to make an opening statement.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

I call Tess White.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

Thank you. We move to questions from members.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

As members have asked all their questions, that brings this evidence session to a close. I thank the witnesses for their evidence this morning. We will suspend briefly to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

11:15 Meeting suspended.  

11:20 On resuming—  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

We will go back to Maggie Chapman.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

Thank you. That concludes our formal business in public. I thank the minister and her officials again for attending. We now move into private session to consider the remaining items on our agenda.

12:53 Meeting continued in private until 12:57.  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

Thank you, minister. Over the past few weeks, as part of our inquiry, public authorities have stated that they generally have a good understanding of the terms and aims of the public sector equality duty in Scotland, but equality organisations have suggested that, although public authorities might understand the aims, they focus too much on the process and do not make positive changes to people’s lives. The EHRC said that there are issues with the quality and consistency of compliance, and that those were reflected in the Scottish Government’s consultation in 2021. Why do you think that there is such inconsistency in compliance with the PSED in Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

Thank you very much. We will now move to questions, and I will start us off.

Over the period of our inquiry, we have noted that public authorities generally think that they have a good understanding of the terms and aims of the PSED in Scotland. However, equality organisations have suggested that, although public authorities might understand the aims, they focus too much on the process and do not make positive changes to people’s lives. What you—that is, the EHRC—have said is that there are issues with

“the quality and consistency of compliance”,

which were reflected in the Scottish Government’s consultation in 2021. Why do you think there is such inconsistency in complying with the PSED in Scotland?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Karen Adam

We now move on to questions from Maggie Chapman.