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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1111 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Karen Adam

Good evening, Victor, and thank you for joining us. I will ask you a question about the evidence that you have gathered on this subject. What were some of the key findings that really stood out for you? That is a general question and might be quite broad, but pinning down a couple of the main issues would be really helpful.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Karen Adam

Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Karen Adam

Thank you for coming this evening, Reem.

In 2021, you joined with other UN mandated representatives to write to Bulgaria to ask it to make gender recognition a more simplified process based on self-identification. What changed your mind over the past year? Can you explain to us the evidence that prompted that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 19 December 2022

Karen Adam

That is helpful. I acknowledge that it is hard to pin down the scale, but, if trans people could gain access to a gender recognition certificate more easily than they can now, would that be helpful with regard to our data overall?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Karen Adam

I thank the panel for coming along. Richy Edwards’s witness statement in particular was extremely powerful and really helpful. We cannot overestimate the power of lived experience in making and shaping law.

In determining how all this might fit with the criminal law in Scotland, you recommended criminalisation, which you have spoken about. How do you see that working in practice in relation to parents, medical professionals and faith leaders?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Karen Adam

That is really helpful—thank you.

I would like to add to my initial question. Dr Crowther, you spoke earlier about how we are still very much in a society where being cisgendered and heteronormative is seen as the default setting for human beings. It is quite hard for people to break through that narrative. Richy Edwards spoke about there being a ripple effect, which harms not only the individual concerned but the whole of society. If conversion practices were to be made a criminal offence, would it be helpful in changing such mindsets so that there could be good, positive ripple effects?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Karen Adam

That is helpful—thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Karen Adam

That is really helpful—thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Karen Adam

Thank you for bringing the petition to the committee. I am excited about being able to talk about a sign language. It is really important to note that, as you stressed, BSL is different from Makaton. I was brought up bilingual, so to speak, because my dad was deaf. I was brought up to be quite fluent in BSL, so I know the difference. BSL is a full and complete language in itself, whereas Makaton has a sign per word for someone who may already understand English or spoken language.

I have seen the communication difficulties for people who use sign language in any form and I know how incredibly frustrating they can be. There are different signs for different words, which is why it is important to have an interpreter who knows how someone uses the signs. There is some crossover with the idea of understanding. I completely get where you are coming from: communication is vitally important.

It was interesting that you brought up the signs for who, what, where and when. I always add why and how. We have who, what, where, when, why and how. When someone can make the signs for those words, as I have just done, they can begin to open up and really communicate with another individual.

The point about communication is key to the evidence that you are giving today, particularly when it comes to the justice system, because in that case we are talking about people who are already in a vulnerable position. Statistically, they are more likely to be taken advantage of, which is why it is so important that we get the communication right.

12:15  

I am saying all this because I want you to know that I really understand where you are coming from. I have seen somebody with a learning difficulty start to use Makaton and it made a massive difference in their life. I could see it in their demeanour and how they could express themselves. Just to be able to show that they wanted something to eat, for example, made a massive difference.

We are focusing on communication in the justice system. Are there any other areas that you think should be opened up through use of Makaton or do you want to focus only on the justice aspect?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Petitions

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Karen Adam

That is really helpful. What you have said makes me think that it would be good to keep some documentation of the signs that a person uses. We had a wee document passed to us today that shows us some signs. I was just thinking that I sign my name by pointing to my cheek, because I have a dimple, but those things are quite individual even in families or households. We also have regional sign language—I talk mostly Doric BSL—so I completely get your point, and that has opened up another aspect.