Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning to the panel. I appreciate your answer to the convener’s earlier question, saying that you cannot really speculate on amendments. However, I wonder whether there are—if I can word it like this—any updates on discussions between the Lord President and the Scottish Government regarding any areas in which it may be easier to transfer, through an amendment to the bill, powers to the Lord President from the Scottish Government, where the bill currently proposes that they rest. You said, for example, that it would be tricky to set up an independent regulator. Are there any areas in which you see any hint that what I have described would be possible?

Last week, the Association of Construction Attorneys stated that becoming a new regulator under the existing rules was

“challenging and, at times, traumatic”.—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 21 November 2023; c 2.]

It also said that no reasons for decisions were given by the Lord President. Do the rules in sections 25 to 37 of the bill, on applications to become a new regulator, need to be amended in some way to deal with that issue?

Lady Dorrian stated that it would be problematic for the Lord President to have a say over an independent review body. Do you agree?

I thank my colleague Clare Haughey for securing the debate.

Forty years ago this year, a team of doctors at the Pasteur Institute in France reported that they had isolated a new virus that they believed was the cause of AIDS. The World Health Organization estimates that, since the beginning of the pandemic, as many as 113 million people worldwide have been infected with the virus, and as many as 51.3 million people worldwide have died as a result of HIV.

Four decades on, too many people across society are unaware of the basics of the transmission of blood-borne viruses or of the great scientific advances in treatment and prevention. Far too many are unable to say what the H in HIV stands for.

Like my colleague Clare Haughey, I welcome this year’s new public health campaign against HIV and AIDS, which was created in partnership with the Scottish Government. I vividly remember being a child in the 1980s and seeing the “Don’t die of ignorance” campaign, which was shocking and fearful. I am sure that it did nothing to help alleviate the stigma at the time. Ignorance, fear and misunderstanding about HIV and AIDS were at their peak, and the school playground was not immune to it. I remember children tagging each other in mock horror, claiming, “Now you have AIDS”. Those children, and many adults, did not know then that HIV could not be passed on through touch.

In 2023, sadly, stigma continues to take its toll. As Clare Haughey said—it is worth repeating—according to research funded by the Scottish Government, only 35 per cent of people in Scotland would be happy to kiss someone who is living with HIV, despite it having been known since the 1980s that the virus cannot be passed on through saliva. I found that quite sad to read. It also found that almost half of the people in Scotland who are HIV positive would be ashamed to tell other people that they are HIV positive, and only a third of Scots are aware that those living with HIV on effective treatment cannot pass it on, or that undetectable equals untransmittable.

The Princess of Wales played her part in dispelling HIV myths on a visit to the UK’s first specialist HIV and AIDS unit, where she shook hands with and hugged patients. That was in 1987.

This week, however, my office spoke with a number of people who are living with HIV about the stigma that they face day to day, and I wish to share some of their testimonies with members. A 47-year-old woman who is living with HIV told my office that she went into hospital for a routine bladder examination. Upon informing the doctor of her HIV status and treatment, she was told to wait in the waiting room in her medical gown. Her examination was then cancelled as a result of concern about the use of equipment for later patients. When she went to get her Covid jab, upon telling the nurse that she has HIV, which is under control, the practitioner pulled her hands away abruptly and walked away, saying that she needed to go and get gloves. This week, I have heard of doctors and nurses putting on two or even three pairs of gloves when dealing with patients who are living with HIV.

The importance of tackling stigma is twofold. It is about making the lives of people who are living with HIV better, and that is reason enough. However, the myths about HIV and the stigma surrounding the virus ultimately discourage testing, which delays or prevents treatment and, in turn, results in further transmission.

We must do all that we can to eradicate ignorance. The new campaign is a good start, but we have to go further. Scotland can be the first country in the world to end new cases of HIV, but if we are to do so, we must tackle the stigma wherever it rears its ugly head. Let us never forget what the H in HIV stands for; let us never forget that, behind every diagnosis and every disclosure, there is a human.

I want to drill down a bit more into that, if I may. My question is along the lines of the supplementary that just popped up, but I want to open it up to more of the panel.

What are the panel’s views on the powers being granted to the SLCC to initiate a complaint in its own name when it becomes aware of a public interest issue and on the powers for professional organisations to investigate complaints on their own initiative, where those arise from their regulatory monitoring? I am happy to be guided on who to ask first, convener.

Yes, I am. Thank you.

What are the panel’s thoughts on the proposal to allow the SLCC to investigate complaints about unregulated legal service providers?

Thank you.

Good morning. It has been fascinating so far, so thank you for your testimonies.

I would like to know the witnesses’ views on the rules in the bill that will give the SLCC greater monitoring and standard-setting powers. That is in relation to the relevant professional organisations to investigate and determine complaints. I will start with Neil Stevenson, please.

Thank you. I will ask other members of the panel about that. Rosemary Agnew, would you like to respond?