Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Tuesday, April 16, 2024

Official Report 1015KB pdf

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Business Motion

The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-12864, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on changes to the business programme. Any member who wishes to speak against the motion should press their request-to-speak button now. I call George Adam to move the motion.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees to the following revisions to the programme of business for—

(a) Tuesday 16 April 2024—

after

followed by Topical Questions (if selected)

insert

followed by Ministerial Statement: Implementation of the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

delete

5.00 pm Decision Time

and insert

5.30 pm Decision Time

(b) Thursday 18 April 2024—

delete

2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions:
Social Justice

and insert

2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Social Justice

followed by Ministerial Statement: Climate Change Committee Scotland Report: Next Steps—[George Adam]

I call Meghan Gallacher to speak to and move amendment S6M-12864.1.

14:04  

The Cass review, which was published last week, raises serious concerns about gender-affirming care for children in Scotland.

Not only does the report conclude that there is a lack of evidence to support the use of puberty-suppressing hormones, but it details how children and young people might not be being offered the right psychological support and assessment when they experience gender distress. That should worry us all. It certainly worries me, as a parent who would never wish any harm to come to any child, especially to children who need support when they are going through difficult times.

The truth is that we do not know what harms are caused by gender care, because we need more research, here in Scotland. I have repeatedly warned the Government about the Sandyford clinic. I have asked for a review, similar to the Cass review, of gender-related services for children and young people, and I have warned about the lack of evidence regarding puberty blockers. Those calls have been ignored time and again. I do not raise these issues to cause problems; I do so because I want to ensure that children receive the right safeguards when they embark on a course of medication that could have life-altering consequences.

We now have a report that suggests that we should approach gender care with caution, but the Scottish Government is burying its head in the sand and refusing to give any indication of whether it will accept any of the report’s 32 recommendations or will, at the very least, pause the use of puberty blockers until we have more evidence that they are safe. The Scottish Government must implement those 32 recommendations now—or explain why it will not do so, if that is the case.

It is not as if this Government or Parliament has been starved of opportunities for scrutiny. I have requested ministerial statements, written to the First Minister, submitted a question for First Minister’s question time, submitted a topical question and have submitted today an urgent question—all about the Cass review. All were either not taken, refused or ignored by this Government. What more must an elected member do to try to get answers?

Our Parliament’s principles are openness, accountability, the sharing of power and equality of opportunity, yet we have a Government that is in hiding and is unwilling to address a serious issue in the chamber.

I stand here today for countless parents, carers and young people and for those who have been failed by gender-affirming care in Scotland who want, and deserve, answers. That is all that they want. They want confirmation of what this Government will do, now that the Cass report has been published in full. The Scottish National Party Government has had two years since publication of the interim report to think about that, but I believe that it has done nothing, in hope that the issue will go away and that no one will dare to challenge it.

Scottish Conservatives seek to amend today’s business motion. If the SNP Government stands for the principles of this Parliament, it should allow a ministerial statement on the Cass review. Otherwise, it will confirm my suspicion that it is trying to dodge any scrutiny and is therefore letting down vulnerable children and young people right across Scotland.

I move amendment S6M-12864.1, to insert after “followed by Ministerial Statement: Climate Change Committee Scotland Report: Next Steps”:

“followed by Ministerial Statement: Scottish Government Response to the Cass Review

delete

5.00 pm Decision Time

and insert

5.30 pm Decision Time”.

14:08  

I begin with an important part of what Dr Hilary Cass said. Dr Cass highlighted the

“increasingly toxic, ideological and polarised public debate”

that does nothing to serve young people who are accessing care, their families or the national health service staff who work to care for them. We should be aware of that when we have such discussions.

The Cass review is undoubtedly important and the Scottish Government has consistently been clear that the review’s final report and findings will be considered closely by the Government, health boards and wider partners, in the context of how healthcare can best be delivered in Scotland. That will take some time, because Dr Cass’s considered 400-page report was published only last Wednesday. We are also clear that much of the report deals with clinical decisions, which are—rightly—made by clinicians, not politicians.

However, the main point that members are aware of is that the Cass review deals with services in NHS England, not in NHS Scotland. It is therefore clearly not the responsibility of the Scottish Government to respond: it is for the UK Government to respond with ideas for its NHS.

The question is, that amendment S6M-12864.1, in the name of Meghan Gallacher, which seeks to amend motion S6M-12864, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on changes to the business programme, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.

14:10 Meeting suspended.  

14:17 On resuming—  

We move to the vote on amendment S6M-12864.1. Members should cast their votes now.

The vote is closed.

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.

Thank you, Mr Rowley. We will make sure that that is recorded.

For

Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)

Against

Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)

The result of the division on amendment S6M-12864.1, in the name of Meghan Gallacher, on changes to the business programme, is: For 53, Against 61, Abstentions 0.

Amendment disagreed to.

The next question is, that motion S6M-12864, in the name of George Adam, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on changes to the business programme, be agreed to.

Motion agreed to,

That the Parliament agrees to the following revisions to the programme of business for—

(a) Tuesday 16 April 2024—

after

followed by Topical Questions (if selected)

insert

followed by Ministerial Statement: Implementation of the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

delete

5.00 pm Decision Time

and insert

5.30 pm Decision Time

(b) Thursday 18 April 2024—

delete

2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.30 pm Portfolio Questions:
Social Justice

and insert

2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions

2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Social Justice

followed by Ministerial Statement: Climate Change Committee Scotland Report: Next Steps