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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 April 2025
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Displaying 764 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I think that this has been covered, in a sense, but I am interested in this gap that has been mentioned. Is one of the issues that a foundation apprenticeship is a bit of a commitment and work experience is no commitment at all? Do we need to have something in between? Do we need a bit more structure to work experience—say, a degree of certification—while at the same time ensuring that we do not necessarily have something that involves the same commitment as a full-time course that lasts the whole of an academic year? Is that what we are vaguely reaching towards in this discussion? In Manchester, for example, they have skills boot camps. Could we be looking at those kinds of more structured but shorter-term models and opportunities for young people?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is interesting.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

Are there any other structural elements, such as the format of learning? How should we break down the problem in order to address the reskilling issue?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I have a brief supplementary question. I want to break what has been said apart a little bit, and I will explain why. A few weeks ago, I spoke to a decorator apprentice who had started when he was 30. There is a structural problem, which you alluded to, in relation to funding and the format of learning, but that apprentice said that he had also found there to be a cultural issue in that everyone treats the apprentices as young lads, but he is not a young lad.

Do you agree that there are multiple strands? As well as the issues with structure and the format of learning, there might be some cultural elements. Are there any other strands to the reskilling challenge? It is really important that we pull apart all the details of what that challenge looks like.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will leave that there, convener, unless anyone else on the panel wants to respond.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I find that interesting, because I think sometimes we treat skills as an alternative to academic things. From what you have just described, it is just a different blend of academic subjects, relative to the other things that you should be learning at school. Is that a fair summary?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

As an add-on—I know that this is a mild tangent, but I do not know where else I would throw this question in—do we also need to tease apart, a little bit, the technical and the vocational sides of things? I think that, sometimes, we say that something is either academic or skills based, and there is also a difference between practical hands-on learning and the applied theoretical side, which is technical. In other countries, they keep those three categories quite distinct. Is that something else that we need to think about? Do we need to make sure that, at school level, we are providing opportunities across those three areas, not taking some binary approach that sees just academic subjects and skills-based subjects?

Stevie, you seem to be nodding.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is true, but it is also about the content of what providers are providing, with that happening on an employer-by-employer basis. Employers could guarantee the places, but they could buy into a more, in essence, on-the-shelf system, rather than there being bespoke learning. Would that simplify the system?

I will let you answer that, and then I will ask a follow-up question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will ask Ian Hughes the same question. We can all appreciate that, if someone has been trained in one trade on a construction site, they are not starting from square 1. Do you take the view that, if you want to train people who already have some work experience, there are bypasses and you can accredit previous experience? What do the different routes that you outlined look like? How can we make the system more efficient?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Daniel Johnson

You are making the point that we need to top up the apprenticeship model, not take away from it.