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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 894 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Perhaps I have been clumsy in the way in which I have phrased it. I am thinking about the fact that we have to decarbonise but, if we have to build a significant amount of new energy infrastructure, particularly on the grid side of things, what is the carbon output of the process of electrifying more of our society, and how do we reduce the carbon output from the electrification process? In a rush to decarbonise our society, we might end up producing more carbon as a result of that process in itself.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Does anyone else have a view on what the hierarchy of priorities should be when we think about the areas of infrastructure that need to be adapted?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

On the decarbonisation of industry and the fuel supply, the CCC has suggested that about two thirds of industry will be decarbonised through electrification and that about a fifth of decarbonisation will come from hydrogen and the use of CCS. Is that an accurate reflection of how industry and the fuel supply sector will be decarbonised, and has the CCC got the balance right in its advice?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I will leave it there as well.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Let me finish my point first.

As parliamentarians, we have a collective responsibility to take responsibility for that and show the leadership that is necessary in order to address it, rather than looking for excuses to chase after voters who are drifting to Reform UK.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

When I talk about things such as “flimsy excuses”, I refer to, for example, your suggestion that electricity is in some way pinned to the international gas price in the UK, when that is a fact; it is what drives our electricity costs. Your party was in government at Westminster for more than a decade and it could have taken action on that if it had chosen to do so. The reality is that it chose not to. Equally, during that time, the Conservatives supported the need to ensure that we achieved net zero by 2050.

In the UK and Scotland, it is not optional; it is a legislative requirement. We are legally obliged to achieve net zero by 2045 and 2050. As parliamentarians, if we choose to ignore that based on flimsy excuses, we are not doing our job properly. That is why I will vote for the motion, even though I accept that parts of the process are not as effective as they could be. I accept the responsibility that we have to tackle the nature and climate emergencies that we face, not only for this generation but for future generations.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Good morning. I want to stick with the themes of infrastructure and adaptation. It has become clear this morning that there is a need for investment in infrastructure to meet the growing change that we are witnessing in our own climate, and to mitigate some of the risks that will we face in the future. Have you a view on whether there should be a hierarchy of priority on what infrastructure we need to start to adapt now in order to meet the risks that we face? Perhaps I could come to Professor Renaud first on that, given his expertise in climate resilience.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Yes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

Finally, how large a part can nature-based solutions play in our climate adaptation approach?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Michael Matheson

I want to stick with the theme of the electrification of heavy goods vehicles, because I was quite struck by the evidence that was provided by the CCC on that area. The CCC specifically stated that, by 2030, it expects 6 per cent of our HGVs to be battery electric. By 2045, the committee expects, if I am reading its publication correctly, 84 per cent of HGVs to be battery electric.

I am not going to get into whether it will be hydrogen or battery electric. I suspect that it will be more battery electric than hydrogen; that is just where I think the technology is.

I find the timescale for those figures to be completely unachievable, which I think is due to two factors. One is that, as it stands at the moment, we do not have a grid infrastructure to build out sufficiently on electric car charging facilities. There are constraints across the grid; we cannot get new charging points put in because there is no capacity, so I do not think that it will be delivered. That is one reason that will constrain us.

The second reason is that it will involve a huge amount of capital investment for companies to turn over their vehicles in that period of time. If we look at what happened with electric cars, for early adopters, they were very expensive—and they remain expensive, although the CCC is saying that price parity will be achieved between 2026 and 2028.

It is fine in theory, but, in practice, I do not think that it will be delivered, and if it is not delivered, what is the alternative?