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Thank you, Marie-Louise, that is really helpful. My next question is on means testing. Witnesses who attended the committee over the past two weeks called for the removal of financial eligibility requirements for certain types of cases where domestic abuse is a factor. Survivors of domestic abuse, the majority of whom are women, are some of the most vulnerable members of our society. That is an area that I know extremely well, because I introduced the Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. Many of the survivors whom I have spoken to have told me how their abusers controlled their finances—many of those women do not even know what their household incomes are.

Last week, we heard that legal aid for housing cases in England is not means tested. Do you agree that we should take that as an example and apply it to legal aid for domestic abuse cases in Scotland? Marie-Louise, you mentioned carrying out a consultation on means testing. What work have you done in that area? When will the information from that consultation be available to you?

Thank you for that information. I have one final quick question. It is worrying that you say that, although this committee and the Social Justice and Social Security Committee have heard evidence on it in the past two weeks, not everybody knows that the means test has those levers to help vulnerable people, especially women. I am sure that men go through the process as well, but a lot of women are in that position and I am concentrating on the majority. We are many years on with this, but you say that we still need to raise awareness that means testing can help those women.

Organisations such as Scottish Women’s Aid have also come in to tell us about this issue. I am surprised and very worried by evidence that although the system has been in place for many years, if anything it needs to be renewed, which is what we are discussing today. You have just said that many solicitors and organisations are not aware of the allowances that can be made. We should think about how many domestic abuse survivors, especially women, might have been let down by the system because there is an awareness and education issue and people do not have guidance on that aspect.

It is surprising to me that you have said something very different from what other witnesses have said. Why are we taking evidence on raising awareness when the issue should have been resolved earlier, which would have meant that those vulnerable women might not have gone through what they did?

We heard from Colin Lancaster earlier that sometimes there are levers to help survivors. However, as we discussed, there is quite a worrying gap there, especially when it comes to eligibility. I said earlier—and another member touch on this, too—that solicitors and organisations are not fully aware of what legal aid has to offer.

We know that the law that is in place is very complex and could be simplified, but what work is being done to ensure that lawyers and organisations get information about that? We have come only this far in so many years; it is shocking that this big issue was not identified years ago and that we have let the situation go on when a lot of vulnerable victims could otherwise have had the help that they needed.

You heard Colin say that the system does not allow SLAB to action any of that work and that it needs more to be done; my colleague Tess White pointed out that it could do a lot more work with the Law Society. I am asking you not only about awareness but about why it took so long for the issue to be identified, and how we can move forward. I know that you are doing the reform, but it will take time. How can we move forward to help vulnerable victims now?

Good morning. Thank you for the information that you have provided so far.

Over the past two weeks, witnesses have called for financial eligibility criteria to be expanded. Financial thresholds have not been updated in line with inflation since 2011, which was 14 years ago. Modelling from SLAB shows that eligibility for civil legal assistance has decreased and that that might be becoming a barrier in relation to advice and assistance. At the same time, people who are eligible for legal aid struggle to find solicitors who will take up their cases. Over the past two weeks, the committee has heard evidence that echoes that picture.

Although the Minister for Equalities told the Social Justice and Social Security Committee that legal aid needs to be reformed, nothing has happened. Is the Scottish Government failing the most vulnerable in our society? What more needs to be done?

Thank you for clarifying that.

Good morning. My questions will be a bit long, because I have been pulling together some things that our witnesses have told us over the past two weeks, so please ask me to repeat anything after I have asked my question.

Witnesses have called for financial eligibility criteria to be expanded, as financial thresholds have not been uprated in line with inflation since 2011. That is 14 years ago—nearly a decade and a half. Some witnesses said that those outdated financial thresholds are not fit for purpose in this decade. Andy Sirel of JustRight Scotland said:

“if you have £1,718 in your bank account, you are not getting legal aid.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 13 May 2025; c 18.]

In the previous session today, we heard concerns about that from Colin Lancaster of the Scottish Legal Aid Board. Last week, Dr Ben Christman of the Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland said that someone over the age of 21 who was working for the national minimum wage for more than 20 hours per week was not eligible for advice and assistance, as the current weekly disposable income threshold is £245 per week. He even referred—as Colin Lancaster did today—to a scenario in which people in receipt of universal credit were not eligible for advice and assistance. However, some legal cases can cost up to £500,000.

If someone on universal credit cannot get legal aid, who is legal aid for? If we cannot even help the people in our society who most need it, can you clarify whom we are actually helping, minister?

Thank you—I ask you to please look at that in your reform, because the issue has been brought up in evidence for the past two weeks. People have such a low amount of money, but they do not get advice and assistance. Please look at that, minister.

Over the past few weeks, the committee has taken evidence on how legal aid is administered for survivors of domestic abuse. Two weeks ago, Andy Sirel of JustRight Scotland highlighted that a survivor of domestic abuse can sometimes go to between 30 and 50 law firms before they can get a solicitor. As if those figures are not horrendous enough, we also heard about a woman in a divorce case who had been attacked by her husband and had to contact 116 firms.

Last week, Dr Marsha Scott of Scottish Women’s Aid said:

“we are no closer to ... reform now than we were”

in 2017. She also said that the current model

“is not fit for purpose”

as

“It chops ... lives ... into little bits.—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 20 May 2025; c 5.]

The lives of those women, and in many cases of their children, are at stake. The situation is so bad that even the United Nations Human Rights Committee pointed out that it was

“concerned about the depletion of legal aid lawyers”

across the United Kingdom, but in particular in Scotland.

Minister, as you will probably be very much aware, it is a big first step for survivors even to contact a solicitor; we know that many survivors do not do that. We are talking about someone having to call 116 firms. I ask you to imagine a survivor picking up the phone and saying, “I need help,” once, twice, three times, and then 116 times. That is not good enough. You, as the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, and the Scottish Government cannot keep dragging your feet on this. It is so important that those women are treated with dignity and respect.

I really hope that the reform that you have mentioned takes all that into consideration, because it is happening on the ground. As you know, through my Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, I have had the opportunity to speak to many survivors, so I know that it is a big issue.

At times, the partner holds all the financial records and controls the finances. Women especially may not hold all the information and may have to be means tested.

I have one more question. You said earlier that the model of legal aid for women and children in Scotland is not fit for purpose and is not demand led. Fiona McPhail spoke about the system in England, which is not means tested. Do you think that we should have such a system for domestic abuse cases here?

Does anybody want to add anything?