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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 January 2026
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Displaying 1143 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

If you are returned to government, are you going to preside over what the SFC has outlined? I accept what you say in relation to the one-year budget that we are discussing, but it is the future planning that I am interested in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I am not sure that I would call the largest uplift to the settlement marginal and I do not think that some of the commentary around that does that. We could get into the debate around what the cabinet secretary would suggest is done in order to ensure—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I am quite sure that you do, and I am quite sure that we have heard it before.

I wonder whether I can turn to capital. We discuss that a lot and the cabinet secretary is always keen to point to the Government’s record on capital investment. However, the Scottish Fiscal Commission projects that there would be a decrease in capital spending, including financial transactions, of 3.9 per cent in cash terms, which is down 6 per cent in real terms. What is the cabinet secretary’s view of what that would mean for the education estate? I appreciate that she is going to tell me all that has happened in the estate, but that there is still work to do.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

On that point, does the cabinet secretary accept that, as was reported on recently in The Herald, some of that work was done pre-2007 and that the baseline has moved?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

The cabinet secretary is keen to point to the role that local government plays and the 32 different versions of provision, which she often alludes to. What is her view on the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities’ comments that the budget does not address the scale of pressures that councils face? The commentary around that is that councils are considering council tax increases. Does she recognise that the projected reductions in council budgets will have an impact on resourcing? We have had a debate in the chamber about classroom resources and what is available to teachers. Does the cabinet secretary share COSLA’s concerns?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there is a resourcing challenge here? This brings me back to the exchange that we had on local authority budgets. I recognise a lot of what she has said about trying to get some standardisation or commonality of service, if you like, but she will recognise that local authorities often have to make decisions that are based on children having to have higher tariff needs or to be higher on a staged intervention—or STINT—scale, for example. That is because—let us be honest—the resource is often just not there to provide more specialised support, such as individual PSAs, to pupils. She will recognise the resourcing problem that exists in that respect.

I declare an interest: I used to work for Enable Scotland, which, back in 2016 or 2017, authored a report on the presumption of mainstreaming and the 22 steps to inclusion that would be required. I recall John Swinney embracing that report at the time and saying that the Government would take action on a number of its recommendations, which cover what we are discussing today.

That has not happened. Do you have any reflections on that, given how long your party has been in government?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

The cabinet secretary perhaps did not pick up on my point that, 10 years ago, in the previous session of Parliament, organisations were making the same points, particularly around data and around what we do not know.

I appreciate that the cabinet secretary said earlier that she does not want to be bound by the decisions of her predecessors, but what has the Government been doing? We are now, at the end of this session of Parliament, talking about collecting data and reviewing much of the provision, but such calls have been made for 10 years or more.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

Would the cabinet secretary accept that, with the presumption to mainstream, people were ringing alarm bells about their concerns about inclusion and making sure that young people were properly included?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

Good morning. We have a one-year budget, but there are projections beyond that, which will be a challenge for whoever forms the Government. There has been commentary about the potential need for in-year revisions to the budget after the election. The Scottish Fiscal Commission’s estimates show that resource spending on education and skills is projected to decrease each year over a three-year period, falling by £69 million in real terms by 2028-29. What does the cabinet secretary think will be the impact of that future cut and what sits behind that modelling?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 21 January 2026

Paul O'Kane

I absolutely understand that point. We will have an election and a new Government will be formed. However, do you recognise that the Fraser of Allander Institute and others have given evidence to the Finance and Public Administration Committee on the problems that have built up over time, and that the stark position in the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s projection will have to be dealt with? Do you recognise that it is a serious challenge that will have to be addressed? What planning have officials in your department done in relation to those projections?