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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 1598 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. You have started to touch on this already in the various comments that you have all made, but I am interested in your assessment of whether, if the bill is right, the money will come. There are elements that we are already doing—I am thinking about community asset transfer, and procurement has also been mentioned. Theoretically, the bill should enable additional things. I appreciate Oliver Escobar’s comment about local councils, although they have more borrowing powers than the Scottish Government does, because they have the prudential borrowing scheme.

Based on the experience that you all have, do you think that the bill, in and of itself, will help to facilitate clearer lines of sight on funding? Perhaps Councillor Forson might like to come in first, because Clackmannanshire Council has already been doing some of this work, so she will be acutely aware of the funding challenges that exist in the work that the council has under way.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

I will bring in Professor Escobar shortly. I completely agree that, arguably, our entire financial system is geared to the bigger, the clearer and the perception of less risk, which means that something needs to be tried and tested. That seems counterintuitive to some of the changes that could be effected at community level by the bill, but we are where we are.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

I keep promising to bring in Professor Escobar.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

It is really interesting for me to understand what the blockers are and to what extent the bill can be an enabler. Economic strategy, in and of itself, can indicate intent, but it does not necessarily bring all the pots of money to the table. We have some control over various things in the public sector, some of which Councillor Forson mentioned, but we also talked earlier about small and medium-sized enterprises. Primarily, much of their funding will come from banks, which will take a completely different view of the matter, given their attitude to risk, and they may not be at the table.

I am trying to get a sense of how much of a shunt the bill could provide, although, in my assessment, there would still be considerable blockers. As Councillor Forson said, as a minimum, we do not want the bill to get in the way.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

I am not disputing that; I am simply trying to gain from you an understanding of where we are at. Even if—assuming that the bill goes through—the Government sends out a clear indication of its intention, in and of itself, that will not necessarily attract the range of funding that would be required to enable projects. Even if we completely agree that community wealth building is good and should attract funding, it will not do so in and of itself. I am trying to get a better understanding of where we are at.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Thank you very much.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Professor Escobar, do you have any final comments on the issue?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Okay. My next question is for Rebecca McKee. Picking up on a point that my colleague John Mason focused on, I note that we have all said that we must be mindful of the cost. Where, if anywhere, is real pressure coming from to move it beyond being mindful of the cost? Is there any pressure? The House of Lords committee is looking at it, but I am thinking about what happens internally within Government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Do you agree that no other public sector project would incur expenditure of, potentially, £30 million with no governance whatsoever and no stage gating around costs?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.