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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 July 2025
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Displaying 1311 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

As someone who has walked this journey for five years, I will vote for the amendments, but with a heavy heart. Unlike Evelyn Tweed, I see no excitement in the regulations. Both members of this committee who are actually on PIP and who have disabilities are voting for them with a heavy heart, and that says a lot about where we are today. The disability community is accepting this because nothing else is on offer. That is not what the Scottish Government offered us five years ago.

I and Ben Macpherson sat on this committee. We heard from cabinet secretaries. We heard from civil servants. We heard from stakeholders that they wanted a system that was radically different from what we have today. We are not addressing fundamental issues, such as mobility. We are not addressing people who have variable conditions, such as MS and epilepsy, who will still not get an award. They may be told no in a nicer way, but they will still be told no.

This is a lost opportunity for the Parliament and the country. We started five years ago with a blank piece of paper, and an opportunity to design something that would have helped those with disability to get the benefits that we need and deserve. In fact, that is what we were promised by the Scottish Government, and all that we have done today is paste over what we have had for many years. I hope that the cabinet secretary and the minister, Mr Macpherson, will hear what disabled people are saying about the regulations, perhaps not in public at committees but in private. It has taken five years to get to this point. I do not particularly blame the new agency. I do think that the Scottish Government has dragged the process out and has taken far too long.

I will vote for the regulations because there is nothing else on offer and we do not want to delay anything, but I do so with no excitement and with a heavy heart. I hope that any review will be speedy and will implement the changes that people in Scotland with disability deserve.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Yes.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Good morning, convener. I add my congratulations on your appointment. I look forward to working with you. I also wish Neil Gray all the best in his new role in the Scottish Government.

I have about four or five questions to ask the minister, but I will take them one at a time so that we do not get lost in them.

My first question seeks to develop the point that was just made about case law. What is the Scottish Government’s thinking about what will happen with case law that comes in once ADP is up and running? If a case is decided in a tribunal in Newcastle that affects somebody’s mobility, will that automatically be applied to Scottish case law? How will it be implemented, and who will make that decision?

09:45  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

To clarify, you have not had any direct discussions with the UK Government in the past 10 months about changing the criteria and how that would affect passporting. That all happened in the previous session of Parliament. You have not discussed that at all with any UK minister in the past nine or 10 months.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

This is my last question on this theme. Minister, you were with me on the Social Security Committee as we chewed through the relevant legislation, and if you go back and look at the comments, particularly those of Jeane Freeman when she was cabinet secretary, you see that there was an expectation that the eligibility criteria would be very different by the time that we got to this stage. The only significant change has been around terminal illness and that, interestingly, was because of amendments lodged by me, Labour and the Greens.

What would you say to someone with MS or epilepsy or another variable condition, who might have a nice experience of the system but will still be turned down because they do not meet the eligibility criteria? We have waited six years for significant change around eligibility. Do you not feel that we, as the Scottish Parliament, have let those vulnerable disabled people down?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Minister, you said previously that there will be a review of ADP and that the first stage of that, on mobility criteria, will start later this year. When would you expect that first stage to report to the Scottish Government? Will you set a timetable and, if so, can you outline it for us today?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I thank Ms Blair for that answer. Some of the key decisions around PIP and DLA have been made by the Supreme Court, so any decision that might be made by the Supreme Court, if it is an English case on PIP, will not be binding on the Scottish system. Can she clarify that all decisions that have been made up to the point of the transfer to ADP will be binding on us, or are we starting with an absolutely clean slate?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

It would be helpful to know how long the review will take and when it will go back to you and the Parliament. Thank you. I have no further questions, convener. [Interruption.]

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Thank you. Minister, you said that one reason why we cannot change the eligibility criteria is that that might affect passported benefits. How many meetings have you had with the UK Government and the DWP to discuss whether that is the case and what line the DWP is taking on that? What individual discussions have you had with Westminster Cabinet ministers or other ministers?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Jeremy Balfour

No, thank you, convener. I am done.