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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 September 2025
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Displaying 1631 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

Sorry, yes—I should have made that clear.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

That was a reactive measure in response to an emergency. There was not even a testing regime in place, so you were dealing with what you had within months of the pandemic starting. We are two years on from that now, of course, in a very different world, and the measures before us are being proposed for the future, not for today.

Referring to my original question, what criteria should be used in that respect? We have to go back to the Government and say what we think is right or wrong about the bill. If the measures are only about the pandemic, the health situation in the prison, the prison population or how many people are in a cell, and less about the type of prisoner or how long is left on their sentence, what sort of people were being released, from your point of view, and was it entirely appropriate that they were released early? Would we do something differently next time? Ultimately, the Government will have to rewrite the rules for future pandemics or for variations of this one.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

I have a follow-up to Rona Mackay’s question. In its response to the consultation, HMIPS has said:

“this has been a long-term pandemic and HMIPS would like to see those powers where used reported on transparently and regularly with clear and sufficient justification.”

The inspectorate is asking for more transparency in reporting, as are we, but I get the impression that your response to that is that all the information is there if somebody wants it. The approach does not seem to be joined up. How do we make things much more proactive in that regard so that everyone’s needs might be addressed?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

Have there been any?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

I apologise, convener. I have been looking at our schedule of questions, and I have another question about prisoner release.

What Mr Purdie has said is very welcome, but can I double check that all prisoners are tested before they are released from prison, irrespective of whether their release is early, planned or due? Does that happen as a matter of course, or are they tested when they go into the community, as a general public health measure?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

Of course. I understand the implications of that.

Ms Medhurst, what were the criteria for coming to a decision about early release? I ask that not to look backwards, but because the bill that is before us means that the same situation could arise again. From what you said earlier, the criteria seemed to be largely to do with your ability to confine people in single-occupancy spaces, given the issue of population versus capacity. What criteria did you use for the early release of prisoners? Would you use the same criteria again? If not, what would be different?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

That is great.

My second question on that concerns the fact that some people think that, for some trials, even 18 months is ambitious, albeit that that is an extended time limit. We have just heard examples of some trials that are already taking way beyond 18 months. If we assume that that is what is happening, the backlog is going to take four or five years—perhaps longer—to clear, given the volume of cases.

What are the main causes of the delays to trials? Do they involve the capacity in the system? On numerous occasions, the committee has asked the SCTS and the Crown Office whether they think that there is capacity in the system to deal with the backlog, or what more they might need to get through it more quickly.

Alternatively, do the delays simply involve the nature of the processes that we work with? Is it that, even with all the will in the world—if we doubled court capacity and the number of defence solicitors and Crown agents—we would still not get through it at the same rate as we would wish because of the inherent nature by which trials take place?

What are the main barriers to reducing the length of time that people are waiting? In other words, how do we clear that backlog quickly but also fairly, so that each party is given the absolute right to fairness throughout the process?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

What effect has the rather elongated extension to remand time had on the Scottish Prison Service? Do you have a view as to whether the measures seem necessary and proportionate enough to make them permanent features?

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

I do not mind. It was a tough question.

Criminal Justice Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Jamie Greene

Good morning. My first question is for Emma Jardine from the Howard League. Do you feel that your organisation and the people whom your organisation assists or represents have been adequately consulted as part of the bill process?