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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 March 2026
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Displaying 1423 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 February 2024

Liam Kerr

It is important that I come in here because this group of amendments concerns the operation and impact of the bill. Significant concerns have been raised by experts that sections 12 and 13, concerning restrictions on reporting, are overbroad, unworkable and a significant restriction on media freedoms. Above all, they may well be non-compliant with articles 10 and 8 of the ECHR, and therefore the bill, when it becomes an act, may be inoperable—hence my intervention here.

The committee must concern itself with assisting the Government to avoid passing any more legislation that is unlawful or inoperable and that might ultimately be subject to costly challenge. Therefore, I will put specific questions and request answers to each one in order to seek reassurance for the committee.

Has legal advice been taken specifically on sections 12 and 13? If so, were experts in media law part of that? If so, can we see that advice to reassure ourselves? If not, what will the Government do prior to stage 3 regarding the legality of sections 12 and 13 to ensure that Parliament does not inadvertently pass legally incompetent provisions?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

I could do, convener, but, with respect, I think that you just need to call the amendments. You proposed putting the question to the amendments en bloc, and I have objected to that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

I am grateful for the intervention, but I do not think that the amendment would create that duplication. First, it would allow the statement to be made when the court has remitted a case following conviction, and secondly, it would allow the passage of time to be observed. We should remember that the amendment would give the victim the opportunity to make a victim impact statement, instead of imposing an obligation in that respect. That choice will still be there, but the amendment provides an important right to the victim. Should they need to update any previous victim impact statement as a result of, say, some post-traumatic event, it gives them the opportunity to do so.

As I said, I am grateful for the intervention, but I think that I have answered the point in my response.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

Help me to understand something on amendment 91, minister. The court that initially puts a non-harassment order in place has a victim impact statement to assist it, but, because the Government intends to vote down amendment 206, the panel might not be able to avail itself of the same level of information. Am I reading that right?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

Is it correct that a victim impact statement will be available in one forum but not the other?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

I just want to be clear about what is being proposed. The minister has suggested that there will be a round-table event to allow people to go away and consider all the issues. Meanwhile, we will be passing the bill as proposed at stage 3, which presumably will happen before the conclusions of the round-table event have come back. Will those conclusions be included later as amendments to what at that point will be the act? Is that correct, minister?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

That is not quite what I asked, minister. I asked whether you had received formal legal advice when arriving at your position of confidence and thinking that the amendment distorts things.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

The minister suggested that amendment 206 does not specify which cases it relates to. How does that position hold up when, arguably, it is specified because it is about cases that are permitted pursuant to section 15? Will the minister address that point?

Will she also address the point about time, which was made when my colleague Ross Greer intervened on me and I responded? There are matters that could arise between the initial statement that the minister has spoken about and any further statement. Will she address that point?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

Ross Greer intervened on me and I thought that it was a fair intervention. He said that, if a statement has already been made earlier in the process, it could be argued that we are asking people to relive their trauma. My response was that the amendment would simply give the victim the option to make a further statement. You did not address that point in your remarks, so I wonder whether you could give us your thoughts about that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Liam Kerr

With respect, minister, you can. I was saying that the amendment would give the victim a further opportunity. It is not about ethos; it is about offering a further opportunity. Why do you reject that opportunity being afforded?