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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 1198 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning. I remind the committee, witnesses and anyone who is watching of my interests, in that I am a practising solicitor and I am regulated by the Law Society of Scotland.

At stage 1, the cabinet secretary told the committee—these are my words—that the system needs to be considered holistically, such that, if you remove the not proven verdict, you need to do something with the jury size, for example. That view was reflected in Stuart Munro’s opening remarks.

Now, of course, the cabinet secretary is winding back on jury size but increasing the majority that is needed for a conviction. Michael Meehan, in the faculty’s view, does adding two to the majority provide sufficient safeguards in light of the removal of the verdict? Is there any evidence to suggest that a two-thirds majority is appropriate in a two-verdict system?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I am, but I am speaking more widely, too. The cabinet secretary has made proposals in her letter about changing certain aspects of the bill as it was introduced. When you were looking at that, did you think, “Hang on, that will have a cost implication for our organisation or the sector more generally,” and, if so, do you think that that will be factored in by the cabinet secretary?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful for that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Kate Wallace, do you want to add to that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Kate Wallace, you have cued me up nicely by talking about the victim notification scheme. I recently asked a written question of the Government about the contact centre, the answer to which suggested that money for any developments would need to be found from existing budgets for the sector. In that context, do the changes to the bill that the cabinet secretary is proposing make any difference to the resources that your organisations might need in order to continue to carry out your work effectively? If so, do you get the sense that the cabinet secretary is seeking funding for that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Forgive me for interrupting, but, just to be absolutely clear, would it be Victim Support Scotland’s position that a case involving a charge of murder should be prosecuted in the sexual offences court and not be retained by the High Court?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand. Kate Wallace, do you have a view on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

For the avoidance of doubt, is there any way that 10 out of 15 could be considered a supermajority?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Liam Kerr

Yes. With regard to section 63, on anonymity for victims, the committee raised a couple of issues around the public domain defence and the application of a definition of “victim”. The cabinet secretary’s letter suggests various amendments to address those points. Will they be sufficient, or could they have gone further?