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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 October 2025
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Displaying 1235 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

I know what the numbers are. The statistics say that the numbers are going up, but nobody can agree on whether that means that the numbers are actually going up. That is the problem. You will understand that it is really difficult to make any sense out of this when people keep talking about things that happened 10 or 15 years ago, which, frankly, is quite unhelpful in the context of where we are today.

I will move on. I want to explore the on-going work in looking for opportunities to do things more efficiently. Councillor Hagmann talked about digital and the automation of processes. As has been referenced, different local authorities are collaborating on shared services, and the third sector is perhaps more capable than local government of picking up specific activities in certain areas.

I want to draw out some specific examples. Can you share examples of good practice and quantify how much has been saved compared with the counterfactual? What work is on-going to drive more improvements in that regard? What impact can you see that having in helping to tackle recruitment challenges?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

I get all of that. We do not want the best to be the enemy of the better. If there are specific things that we can do, we should, of course, do them. There could be a range of reasons for the problems with local authorities in England; they might not necessarily be due to that power. The question stands: in principle, everything else being equal, does the Scottish Government think that there is value in having that power? From what Councillor Hagmann said, it seems that local government would be very happy to have that power alongside everything else that it is looking for.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

The Government’s position is therefore that the local authority number is increasing, so, when people say that there have been cuts and that there are fewer people working in local authorities, that is not correct.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Thank you.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Right, so there is nobody keeping a running track of how much has been saved this year through the good work that has been done to make processes more efficient.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Does the Government work with local authorities on that? Do you have a perspective on that, minister?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Good morning. I want to circle back to the general power of competence that Ian Storrie mentioned. The UK Government has the power to do that and has done that for local authorities in England, but we are in the strange position in which the Scottish Government does not, based on your reading of the devolution settlement, have the authority to give that power to local authorities in Scotland. Is that where we are? That is a strange position to be in.

Do you see value in having the general power of competence? Does it give English local authorities the ability to make progress that Scottish local authorities cannot make? Is there value in having that power in Scotland? If so, should there be conversations with the UK Government about that? That is a question for the minister, too.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Well, yes and no. Brexit impacts on recruitment, but it does not impact on what the actual numbers are. There are shortages, but that is a separate issue—an important but separate issue—to whether the numbers are increasing or decreasing as we speak. The pandemic has been and gone. Yes, there might be some spillover from it, but we can isolate that. Those are all issues but, frankly, I do not think that they are relevant to whether we can agree on whether the numbers are going up or down.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

In effect, we will have to agree that we are not in a position to say what the number is or whether it is going up or down, and we will not be able to get to that position at any point in the future. Is that where we are?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ivan McKee

What we are hearing is that ALEOs and extra responsibilities come in and out of that. On a like-for-like basis, we are not in a position to be able to say whether the number is going up, going down or staying the same.