The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 1632 contributions
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
That is interesting—you use and are part of the shared services programme, but you want to preserve the integrity of your independence. Those are the questions that we are interested in. Thank you.
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
Good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting in 2025 of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee. I have received no apologies for today’s meeting. Ash Regan MSP joins us online.
The committee will take evidence from three public bodies that are funded by the Scottish Government but are seen to be independent. I am pleased and grateful to welcome to the committee: Julie Paterson, chief executive officer, Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland; John Ireland, chief executive, Scottish Fiscal Commission; and Craig Naylor, chief inspector, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland.
We move directly to questions. The first question is from me, and is one that you are perhaps anticipating. As part of the review that Parliament has asked us to undertake, we are keen to understand as far as possible how supported bodies that are funded by the SPCB fit into the wider public body landscape. We have heard evidence that SPCB-supported bodies are often created when independence from Government is required for the body to fulfil its functions. As you are funded by the Scottish Government, I am interested in your thoughts on whether you consider that your organisations are able to act as independent bodies. I appreciate that the answer to that is likely to be yes, but I would be keen to understand why. Further, would you be able to function more efficiently, effectively or independently if you were an SPCB-supported body? In effect, I am asking: does who funds you matter?
I do not know who wants to go first—perhaps John Ireland?
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
Unless colleagues have any more questions, I will ask a few last questions, the first of which is on shared services. Craig Naylor, you said that you are based in St Andrew’s house, so you use the Scottish Government estate. Julie Paterson and John Ireland, do you want to say where your physical offices are situated and whether that is in the Scottish Government estate?
Craig, do you pay the Government for using St Andrew’s house?
Can you all tell us more about how you share services, such as human resources and IT? SPCB-funded organisations have their own HR departments.
We are thinking about all of these issues, as you will appreciate.
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
That was very helpful.
Murdo Fraser wants to ask a supplementary question.
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
It is very helpful and interesting. The area of justice is quite interesting in itself, with regard to the wider question of SPCB-funded bodies and Scottish Government-funded bodies. For example, your organisation and the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner are funded by the Scottish Government because you are part of the accountability arrangements for the justice system, whereas the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman is funded by the Parliament and holds other public services to account. Such are the questions that we have been wrestling with over the past months, and your insights are helpful to us as we continue to do that.
I have one further question, and then I will pass to Murdo Fraser. As you might be aware, the Scottish Government has nine classifications of public bodies, such as non-ministerial offices and health bodies. Do you feel that your body has been categorised appropriately and that your framework agreement sets out the right relationships with the Scottish Government and the Parliament? As far as you are aware, has your classification and, therefore, your relationship with the Government, ever been reviewed or reconsidered? If you do not have huge amounts to say on that, please feel free to be quite succinct, but it would be interesting to get your thoughts on those two points.
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
That is very interesting and helpful.
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
Thank you very much. We now come to Ash Regan, who has questions on scrutiny and accountability.
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
Craig Naylor, do you want to add anything?
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
In the public perception, the term “commission” might signify that there is a commissioner to advocate on people’s behalf. That is one of the issues that we are looking at, because there are a number of commissioners that are funded by the Parliament.
Julie Paterson, your organisation is a commission without a commissioner. Do you have any thoughts on that?
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 1 May 2025
Ben Macpherson
It is interesting that you all have different setups. That is helpful for our consideration.
I have one last question. I hope that this does not sound overly semantic. What do you see as being the difference between a commissioner and a commission? We have a number of commissioners and commissions, including the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Do you think that we should use that language more carefully?