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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1632 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

In addition to the significant communications that we are developing, which I have just gone over, advocacy and local delivery services will be available. As colleagues know, the advocacy service is a free service that is available to anyone who identifies as disabled and requires support to engage with Social Security Scotland. That service will be available. Everyone’s circumstances are different, so we encourage everyone who is thinking about asking to have their benefit transferred to seek independent advice for their situation and circumstances.

In the current financial year, the Scottish Government is investing approximately £12 million in funding to support the provision of free welfare and debt advice, as the committee is aware, in addition to our independent advocacy service. That funding will help people to access the advice and support that they need in a way that works for them, whether that is face to face, online or over the phone. As I have mentioned, we have local delivery teams from Social Security Scotland in every authority area, and we encourage people to seek the advice and information that they need.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

No one will be worse off through the case transfer process.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

Certainly, I am open to coming to the committee. We had a good discussion on case transfer generally recently and I am certainly open to doing that again. Obviously, we will have different engagements—like we have today—on specific regulations, but if there is an appetite from the committee to have a similar session to the one we had previously on case transfer, which would include the process that we are discussing today, I would of course attend it.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

I refer to my answer to the deputy convener, in which I set out what we will publish. Of course, the statistics that are assimilated as time progresses will be more insightful for all of us as the roll-out of case transfer is undertaken more generally. I talked about our evaluation report that is to be published in summer 2023. I would imagine that the committee would probably want to discuss that at that point.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

When it to comes to increases that result in a change of a person’s conditions, we do not estimate there will be any increased cost, because our approach largely mirrors the DLA-to-PIP transition, which is covered in the funding that we receive from the block grant adjustment. However, our approach to any decreases will likely increase our costs, as we are choosing to be more generous than the DWP policy. The position with increases to a person’s payment is that they will be backdated to when the case transfer happened.

With regard to decreases, we will apply that only from the date of the review rather than the change of circumstances or case transfer. Therefore, they will apply from when the person’s review outcome is decided. Of course, if they choose to undertake a redetermination or appeal, they will get short-term assistance through that process. It would be only from the conclusion of their review that any decrease or a nil award would be applied.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

Can you just refine that question, Mr Balfour, so that I am clear about what you are asking?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

Good morning, and thank you for inviting me to give evidence on the draft Disability Assistance for Working Age People (Transitional Provisions and Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2022.

I am grateful for our recent discussion on case transfer more generally, which I hope that members found useful. I also appreciate the work of the committee to date in considering the case transfer provisions for people whose awards are moving from disability living allowance to child disability payment and from personal independence payment to adult disability payment. The draft regulations that we are discussing today mirror the processes in the regulations on those benefits in many ways, but there are some key differences, which I will come to shortly.

10:15  

As I have set out to the committee and Parliament before, we are determined to ensure that case transfer is a seamless process and that we transfer people’s awards safely and securely. It is not a simple administrative process. We are refining information from Department for Work and Pensions systems, some of which are decades old, and transferring it to Social Security Scotland’s new, agile single benefits system. Ensuring that we have the right information and that no one falls out of payment across the total of approximately 700,000 awards that will transfer is a project that takes planning and time. We are doing that work at pace, while ensuring that we do not risk the process’s being undertaken in a safe and secure way. Protecting payments is our absolute focus. The benefits in question are payments of money that people rely on, and we will make sure that recipients continue to get paid the right amount of money at the time that they expect.

From 13 June, we will pilot the PIP transfer, with full transfer beginning at the end of August with the national introduction of our adult disability payment. At that point, adults who receive disability living allowance and would otherwise be required to apply for PIP will start to have their awards selected for transfer. It is that transfer, which is known as natural case transfer, that we are here to discuss.

The draft regulations will ensure that a Scottish resident who was born after 8 April 1948 will have their DLA award selected for transfer to ADP if one of the following three criteria is met: a change of circumstance relevant to the DLA award is reported; the DLA award is due to be renewed; or the person asks to have their DLA award transferred. Once the transfer completes, the person’s initial ADP award will be a like-for-like copy of their DLA award. Then, because the eligibility rules for DLA and ADP are different, the person’s award will be reviewed and ADP rules will apply.

I must make it clear that that review will mean that some people’s awards will stay the same, while other people’s awards may be increased, reduced or ended. That said, the process will not be a repeat of the DWP’s transition from DLA to PIP. In line with our case transfer principles, people will not have to apply for ADP in the way that they had to for PIP. Instead, they will be supported through a review process. People who undergo that review will have our new forms of support available to them through our local delivery service and our independent advocacy service. People will have the enhanced rights that we have built into ADP available at every stage of the process.

I will briefly outline that support. We have replaced the adversarial approach of the DWP through the removal of assessments and degrading examinations. We start from a position of trust in what people tell us. The onus will be on Social Security Scotland to collect information on people’s behalf. The agency will need to collect only one piece of formal supporting information when it makes a decision. Short-term assistance will also be available for anyone who has a reduced or nil award after the review and wishes to seek a redetermination or appeal.

We are also exploring ways of providing support to anyone who may lose the enhanced mobility component on review, given the impact that that will have on their ability to continue to access the accessible vehicles and equipment scheme. I will update the committee on that as soon as I can.

We have designed the process to be as supportive as possible, while acknowledging the challenges that moving between different benefits with different rules could create. I believe that, with the regulations, we have struck the right balance.

I will be happy to take questions.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

I cannot speak for individual circumstances after the review, because that will be part of the review process under the eligibility rules for ADP. However, we have explored a number of options for people who might see a reduction in their award or might receive a nil award when their ADP is reviewed, and I will just set out some of those different options now.

We will support people in a number of ways. First, as I have stated, we are ensuring that individuals transfer at their current award level in the first instance, so that they can be supported through the review process. We are also, as I said in response to the deputy convener, setting out clearly in advance the support available to them through our local delivery service and independent advocacy service.

Individuals will benefit from the changes that we have made to ADP to ensure that they are treated with dignity, fairness and respect. For example, we will trust what they tell us. We will place the onus on Social Security Scotland to collect information on people’s behalf during the review and require only one piece of formal supporting information. An important point is that people will have the right to challenge any decision that sees their award reduced or results in their getting a nil award, and they will have access to short-term assistance through that process. The situation for people will, as a result, be a significant improvement on their situation had they been in the DWP system.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

As I said in my opening statement, we have thought about how this process will affect individuals. First, there is the case transfer process and then there is the review, which is what I think—if I am not mistaken—you are referring to. The very clear position is that, at the end of the case transfer process, no one should be worse off than they would have been, had they stayed with the DWP.

As for the review of cases, which of course will happen in due course, the differentiation in our system is that, if an award is increased after being reviewed, that increase will be backdated to the point of case transfer, ensuring that no one misses out. That sort of backdating does not happen in the current system.

If an award is decreased, that change will only take effect from the date of the decision, which means that there will be no overpayment that the person will be asked to repay. That clear difference will be of advantage to people.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

I would refer you to what has just been said. I would also point out that we also have to transfer people on PIP and that we need rules that are consistent and like for like with PIP. We have 300,000 PIP case transfers to undertake.