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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1632 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

First, I thank Mr Briggs for raising the issue and for his work in that area. I know that, over the past year, Mr Briggs has questioned me on a number of different areas relating to the matter of terminal illness. Perhaps we can arrange a meeting in 2023 to discuss those issues more roundly. I think that that would be helpful.

Of course, we all want to make sure, as much as we can, that no terminally ill person has to worry about their finances at such a difficult time. As a Government, we recognise the specific requirements of those living with life-limiting conditions and the call for greater support. However, there is also a consideration of whether the winter heating payment is the correct vehicle for extending provision in those circumstances. Some people who receive disability benefit in relation to their terminal illness may already be eligible to receive a winter heating payment through entitlement to one of the qualifying low-income benefits and relevant premiums.

More generally, we have introduced a range of support measures for terminally ill people and their carers. For instance, as members know, when we introduced our Scottish disability benefits, we changed the definition of terminal illness to be more sympathetic in order to enable people to access the social security support that we want them to receive. We have done that in Scotland by removing any time requirement from our definition of terminal illness. That allows child disability payment and adult disability payment to provide people who are terminally ill with fast-tracked access to financial assistance at the highest rates to which they are entitled, ensuring that accessing financial support is as straightforward as possible for them. Our person-centred approach to child disability payment and adult disability payment relies on the judgment of clinicians, as I said, rather than fixed periods of life expectancy.

Any potential improvements, including an extension of the eligibility criteria, will be considered once this new benefit of winter heating assistance has been delivered and its initial evaluation has been completed. I thank Mr Briggs for raising that. As I said, more generally, I would be happy to meet him in the new year on the issues surrounding terminal illness.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

As part of the net zero agenda, as well as the tackling child poverty national mission that the Government has, ministers and partners are working collegiately on how we reduce demand and improve the quality and energy efficiency of people’s dwellings. My cabinet secretary, Shona Robison, has social security and housing within her remit. The engagement between the work of Mr Harvie and the work of Social Security Scotland and how that all comes together to help to reduce demand for energy and for social security is absolutely part of the focus of two of the main pillars of the Government’s work, which are the net zero agenda and the mission to tackle poverty—child poverty, in particular.

The issue is about the efficiency of housing but also the cost of housing. The fact that the Government is investing capital in significantly more social housing than anywhere else in the UK means that costs are lower for people. That means that their costs overall are reduced, and that is an important aspect of what the Government has delivered over the past decade. The recent action by the Government and Parliament on rents is also important to consider in the overall scenario.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

If I may elaborate, most respondents to the consultation—76 per cent—agreed with breaking the link to the cold weather payment. If we reflect even on last winter, we can understand why. DWP estimates show that, in 2021-22, cold weather payments were triggered on only six occasions at only four of the 27 Scottish weather stations. That resulted in total payments of only £325,000 to approximately 11,000 individuals. If we had had the winter heating payment last year, there would have been £20 million of investment, compared with £325,000, and it would have supported 400,000 individuals rather than 11,000. The unreliability of cold weather payments means that the situation is different each year, but it is worth comparing last year with what we will be able to do this year, should the regulations be passed.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate the point. The way in which the question was correctly worded around the terms “if” and “should” demonstrates why we need to get to a reliable position for people. Mr Balfour asked a question in the chamber yesterday about areas that would have received support under the cold weather payment system if there had been a prolonged period of several instances of seven consecutive days, which is unusual. In Scotland, we also have our fuel insecurity fund, which we have doubled, and we encourage people to engage with that support. We also have the different support mechanisms that are detailed in our cost of living website campaign, and I encourage people to look at that package of support and access all the support to which they are entitled. Of course, if the weather were extreme to the extent that the cold weather payment would have been initiated, many of the households that would have received it in such a scenario would also receive additional support from the Scottish Government through the social security system—for example, through the Scottish child payment and, potentially, the carers allowance supplement. Those households are rightly receiving a lot of additional support from the Scottish Government.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Will you take an intervention?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Owen, do you want to answer that for Mr Balfour, please?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I will bring in Owen Allen in a minute on the history of the considerations. It is important to recognise that the considerations around the benefit were impacted by the pandemic period. We have a work programme that we want to fulfil to meet Parliament’s expectations and those of the public, as well as our ambition and determination to devolve social security in a way that is safe and secure and as expedient as possible within that.

With regard to my answer to your previous question, I recognise and appreciate that, in most years, around the Braemar station, several cold weather payments have been initiated.

On what considerations there were about the delivery of the benefit, the overarching recognition was of the unreliability of it and the fact that it did not guarantee support for low-income households. There was a need to build in consistency by having a measure for a reliable payment that helped those in need of assistance with their heating in different parts of Scotland. It is not the only payment, because, of course, there are other supports but, within that, there should be a reliable payment to provide that support.

Owen, do you want to come in on the considerations in the development of the benefit?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Thanks, Owen.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Again, that is an important point. Considerations on uprating are, of course, for the budget process. There will be a budget statement this afternoon, and I am sure that members appreciate that I cannot comment on the uprating of this or any of the devolved benefits that are within our discretion.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

As I have said, because we are increasing the number of people who will receive support from the Scottish Government, we need to receive a large data scan from the DWP, and we are working collegiately with it on that. When we receive that data, we will need to assurance-check it, make sure that we do all the appropriate system testing and alignment that has to happen to deliver our benefit and then deliver the benefit from February. The DWP has committed to providing that scan to us before 31 January. We are grateful for that, because we need the scan in order to deliver the benefit.

By making a comparison with the 14 days for the cold weather payment, you are not appreciating the fact that we are actually initiating our benefit this year. As I have said, there will be flexibility in future years if we want, for example, to change the payment to a different juncture in the calendar—to November, December or January, say—but that would be contingent on agreeing with the DWP to receive the scan in those years in advance of being able to deliver the payment. I am not saying that the DWP would do that, but we would have to agree that with it collegiately. As I have said, the flexibility has been built in.

I appreciate the points that have been made on cold weather payments with regard to the approximately 1,000 people served by the Braemar weather station. However, we have made a policy decision here to expand the number of people who will receive support, in a reliable way, to approximately 400,000 people. That means that a significantly higher number of people will receive support. Those people experience cold weather, too—perhaps not to the same extreme, but they still need additional support for heating costs. That is the policy decision that we have made, and we are asking the committee to approve it today.