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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1632 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

That is such an important question. First, people do not need to be aware of the winter heating payment; they will just get it. Social Security Scotland will write to people, and they will get the payment.

Collectively, as a committee and as a Parliament, we have discussed raising awareness in a constructive and helpful way, and public discourse is very engaged in raising awareness of the support that is available more generally. The Scottish Government hosts a website that lists the support that is available to people, and we should encourage the use of that by disseminating it widely and raising awareness of it in all regions and constituencies of Scotland. I know that that is happening, and I appreciate members’ engagement in that. The Government is working with local authorities, the third sector and other bodies to constantly raise awareness of what support is available.

We should all ensure that people are aware of the fuel insecurity fund, appreciating that some payments have already been initiated. Child winter heating assistance has gone out from Social Security Scotland to around 25,000 households; that is an additional support that has been paid in recent weeks. There are other supports available that require an application. The Scottish Government continues to raise awareness of the various family benefits that require an application. The response to the Scottish child payment has been remarkable; the number of applications has been extraordinary. Social Security Scotland is working to deliver and pay that as quickly as it can.

A campaign is under way to encourage people to apply for pension credit from the UK Government. I commend the DWP for the proactive way in which it is encouraging people to take up pension credit. That is helpful because it is a benefit that unlocks some Social Security Scotland benefits. A range of work is under way, and I encourage all parliamentarians, everyone who has a network and any people listening who have personal networks—whether through word of mouth, online or otherwise—to continue to raise awareness of the support that is available. The Government absolutely wants to get every pound of support that people are entitled to out to them, particularly at this time.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

That is an important question, and I understand the focus on the date. During our consultation, we engaged with several stakeholders, as well as people with lived experience of cold weather payments through our Social Security Scotland experience panels, which I mentioned. We appreciate that differing views were expressed about what would be the best time for the benefit to be delivered. However, some consultation feedback and wider considerations have argued that it can be colder in January and February. Also, it could be helpful to people who get quarterly bills, as the largest of those tend to land with people in February. However, I know that there are differing opinions on this, and we will consider it ahead of future years. There are people who expressed a preference for such a payment to be made earlier in the winter. I have committed to reviewing that ahead of delivery next year and in future years. The regulations deliberately state that we deliver the benefit in winter, which creates flexibility so that we can consider when the optimum time would be.

This year, we have a congested delivery landscape. In answer to Mr Balfour earlier, I talked about the fact that the DWP is under pressure to deliver its payments of additional support, although I am in no way suggesting that the DWP has determined our timetable. We set our timetable for February because of what I said previously, but we also had to consider the fact that we were delivering child winter heating assistance and needed to deliver those payments. We were delivering the carers allowance supplement and had to consider that payment, and we rolled out adult disability payment this year, which has increased the demands on the agency. Significantly, we launched the second phase of the Scottish child payment on 14 November.

We always have to consider how we deliver benefits safely, securely and reliably, and, with the winter heating payment, the agency has to deliver a new benefit, providing enough time to ensure that we have developed the capacity to process the 400,000 cases when we receive the data scan from the DWP and ensuring that essential system testing is completed prior to commencing any payments. A wide range of considerations went into why, in this instance, the payment will be made from February, but, as I said, I have committed to considering if we would want to change that for next year or future years. I have listened attentively to the feedback on that, and I appreciate the evidence that the committee has heard.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

You could argue that a smaller number of people would be better off with the cold weather payment, but, of course, more than 200,000 people will be receiving support from the winter heating payment who would likely not have received the cold weather payment. So, it is a balance.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Before I bring in Angela Keane, I should say that, contingent on receiving the data scan from the DWP, the data being in order and the processes being initiated in the way that we intend—all of that considered—we will aim to pay everyone as quickly as possible in February, but I cannot guarantee that everyone will receive the benefit in February. It is certainly our intention to get the support to people as quickly as we can.

Angela, do you want to say a bit more about that, please?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Thanks, Angela. As for Mr Briggs’s previous points, I would emphasise to those requiring a little bit of extra support that they should please engage with the fuel insecurity fund, which we have doubled, and the home heating support fund. We want people to get support if they are entitled to it.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

It is not in my gift to write to communities in that way. Ministers are not able to write to individual households.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I do not have that data to hand. We can take that away as an action point and get back to the member and the committee on it. Of course, I would also point out that, with this situation, there are benefits that people will receive from the UK Government, too.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I would be interested in seeing the committee’s engagement on that. Of course, the introduction of the child winter heating assistance delivered on a 2016 SNP manifesto commitment to extending the eligibility for the winter fuel payment to families with children in receipt of the highest care component of disability living allowance. Today, though, we are talking about introducing a winter heating payment, which is about supporting those on low incomes who are the most vulnerable, which will include adults with disabilities.

This will be followed, as members know, by the introduction of a pension-age winter payment in 2024 to replace the winter fuel payments. We have to deliver that in the time that lies ahead, and how we continue to support disabled children and disabled adults through the social security system is something that we are all concerned about. It is an area where we want to provide support where we can. Extending the child winter heating assistance to include disabled adults is not something that we have considered directly at this juncture, but I appreciate the committee’s interest in the matter.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate the member’s argument, but people who are entitled to the winter heating payment will not need to hope: they will get it. That is the different nature of the benefit. It will be delivered safely and securely to those who are entitled to it, and it will not rely on weather conditions.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I thank all colleagues for the discussion that we have had today, the evidence that the committee heard last week and the constructive way in which it has been given. I challenge several parts of members’ contributions. Of course, I have already done that through interventions, and I appreciate that there are time constraints, so I will not dwell on them all. However, I will pick up on Mr Balfour’s point about engagement with the UK Government.

It is completely unfair and unreasonable to challenge ministerial engagement with the UK Government during the period of change that we have been through, when there has been turmoil at ministerial level in the UK Government. I assure Mr Balfour, the committee and the Parliament that my officials engaged regularly with UK Government counterparts on the need for us to receive a scan in good time. We came to an agreement on that, and we are grateful to the DWP for that. I have taken the two opportunities when I have had a conversation with my new ministerial counterpart to raise that point. Of course, he has been in post for only a number of weeks. The scenario in the summer made ministerial engagement very challenging. I assure the committee that, when I can, I undertake engagement with ministerial colleagues in a serious way to press the issues that are of concern to the people of Scotland and to ensure that we deliver social security in Scotland safely and securely.

On the wider points, as I have set out in my opening statement and throughout the discussion, the changes that we are making will help significantly more people—tens of thousands more people—on a reliable basis. People will be able to rely on the winter heating payment from the Scottish Government. They will be able to budget knowing that it is coming. It will not depend on weather conditions and will therefore, along with other support, help people who are in situations of fuel poverty and financial challenge.