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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 903 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

It is definitely good to hear that progress is being made, but I think that we would all agree that it could be faster.

You talked about the £3 million that was paid out in overtime to police officers who were called in when they were on holiday or whatever. Do you have any idea what the cost is for those who are on duty on a day when they are called in and have to spend the whole day in court? Do you record that cost in terms of hours rather than money? Obviously, it has an impact on the service.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

We see that happening quite often.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

I have one further question. Another area of inefficiency that the committee has discussed previously concerns how the whole system works together. We have talked about police officers having to deal with mental health situations that most people would traditionally think are matters for health and social care professionals. Since you came into your role, have you had any discussions with the NHS, Social Work Scotland and other bodies on how more efficiencies could be made in that area?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning to the minister and his officials. Continuing with the previous line of questioning, I want to ask why a consultation period of 30 days has been chosen for MCAs. Is that long enough, given some of the criticisms that we as MSPs hear in our local communities about people not having the time to respond? Where did the 30 days come from, and do you feel that that is enough time for communities to respond?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Thanks for that, minister.

Under what circumstances do you expect a hearing on a proposed MCA to happen? Will planning authorities be required to revise MCA proposals in the light of any hearings that are held?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

It is probably a good point for me to ask my first question. Much of our discussion has been about where community justice sits with other services. We have been talking about drug and alcohol services, which are in the health space, and there has been quite a lot of talk about children’s services.

What are your thoughts—not from a policy angle, but more considering the budget-related possibilities and concerns—on the proposals for a national care service? At this point, it has not been proposed that justice services could be included in the proposed national care service, but there are proposals for the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill to include a provision so that justice services could be brought in at a later date. Our committee is not convinced on that and we have made our views known, and I have my own views on that proposal.

That aside, given what we have talked about regarding the justice system’s interaction with other services, what budgetary possibilities do you think that the creation of a national care service could bring, and what concerns would you have about that? I know that the question is broad, but I am interested to hear your views. I think that it has been a year since we have directly discussed your position on that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

So that would be a concern for you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

That is interesting.

My next question is probably for Lynsey Smith. It comes from my own experience as a criminal justice social worker; I will tap into that, although it is a while ago—coming up for eight years now—since I last worked in the sector.

Is Social Work Scotland thinking about the workload of criminal justice social workers in particular, and whether it can make asks of the Government or various other agencies in that regard? I will set out what I mean by that. I am not giving away any secrets by saying that social work has moved to almost 70 per cent or 75 per cent of the job involving paperwork at times—you will hear that quite a lot. There are risk assessments for social workers to fill in when they are working with an individual, and there are reports and various other assessments to be done, too.

Is anything happening that could perhaps free up a bit more time? That would almost have a budgetary effect, as there would be more direct intervention. I know what the challenges are, because I have done the job. The challenges are real—there are various different people wanting assessments for everything. What are your thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

I do not know how quick my question will be, convener, because it is quite general. It is probably for Karyn McCluskey and Keith Gardner.

I certainly do not need to be convinced of the societal change that needs to happen. However, I feel that, although you have spoken about this being an opportune time, there seem to be so many barriers in the way.

What would you say to the committee, and to the Scottish Government, about that? What case would you like us to make for more investment in community justice services to deliver the results in a way that will mean that society will come with us? How much time do you think that we need in order to see that change? It is not going to happen overnight.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Fulton MacGregor

Did you want to come back in, Lynsey?