The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 October 2025
Richard Leonard
You are on a roll.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 October 2025
Richard Leonard
But, as I understand it, the exodus of staff—or the big turnover of staff—happened this year, in 2025, did it not? The report is on the financial year 2023-24, when there was the complete absence of any budget.
Auditor General, you are presenting this report to Parliament because you have serious concerns about what happened. I suppose that the question is why those serious concerns were not picked up at an earlier point by either UHI or the Scottish Funding Council.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay. I am going to move things along and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 8 October 2025
Richard Leonard
I read a report that suggested that, under the principal and CEO who has now left but who held that position at the time of the audit, there were five different finance directors, which again is an interesting indication of the instability of that function inside the college.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Principle 6 of the eight principles in the report is to design the system
“with the people of Scotland on the basis of evidence.”
That takes us back to the first principle, which we have been looking at this morning.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Good.
I invite Joe FitzPatrick to put some questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Yes—that would be very helpful, I think.
I have a final point to raise. You have mentioned the independent review into the adult disability payment a couple of times. I cannot pre-empt what the committee decides to do, but we may well invite the director general communities and representatives of Social Security Scotland to give evidence to us on the report. What is your understanding of what they plan to do about the findings of the independent review?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. I am quite sure that we will get to the funding gap during the course of the next hour or so, but I will begin with some of the first principles. In exhibit 1 in the report, you reflect on the founding principles of the social security system as defined by the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018, which spoke about social security as being about making an investment in people, the dignity of people, about it being a public service, a method of reducing poverty and so on.
To what extent have the eight substantial and important underpinning principles that are set out in the act been followed by the Government?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 26th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item for the committee to consider is whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Are we agreed to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Erin, I think you said that the transfer has now been completed, so 347,000 people have transferred across. Over and above that, some people have now applied to Social Security Scotland directly for the adult disability payment, so the total number is around 500,000.