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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
When we took evidence from the Auditor General on 1 October, he said:
“I do not think that we are yet clear about the Government’s intention around the review.”
Edel, are you reasonably clear about the Government’s intention around the review?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thanks for that response. I invite the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, to ask some questions of you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed for that clarity and for concluding the meeting with a very hopeful and visionary message of a better future.
Edel Harris, thank you for your time this morning. Your evidence has been very useful for us. We have a session with the Scottish Government and Social Security Scotland coming up very soon. I do not know whether we will take the opportunity to press them to get a response earlier than February about their view on the recommendations that you have made in your very important report. We will make sure that you are aware of when that evidence session is, so that you can tune in or follow it later on.
11:59 Meeting continued in private until 12:19.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Graham Simpson wants to come back in with a very quick question.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay—good. That is a nice bookend, because we finish as we started, by looking at the governance arrangements.
I thank the Auditor General, Mark MacPherson and Claire Tennyson from Audit Scotland, and Andrew Burns from the Accounts Commission, for their evidence. You have undertaken to have a look at some of our requests for a bit more data. We would very much appreciate it if you could supply us with that, because we will need to consider our next steps in reviewing the findings and recommendations in the report.
We will now have a further evidence session, but I suspend the meeting to allow for a change of witnesses. We will resume in five minutes or so.
11:00 Meeting suspended.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay, thanks. I call Mr Dixon, on behalf of COSLA.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Richard Leonard
You have been around for a few years, Mr Brannen.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Richard Leonard
If you do not mind, Mr Brannen, I will ask the COSLA representative to give their perspective, because local government is often at the other end of things. We will get into the funding arrangements over the course of this morning, but there is quite a big onus on both local government and central Government to find the capital expenditure required. It is therefore important to understand where the transfer of risk takes place and who is responsible if things fall behind.
Mr Dixon, what is the local government perspective on the gaps and on whether there is clarity on roles and responsibilities?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Following up on the last point, the issue is sometimes whether that matrix has unintended consequences. Certainly, reflecting on the evidence session that we had with the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, it seems that some study might be useful—it could be done by the Government or by an academic institution—to see whether there is any kind of correlation.
To Mr Burnish’s point, if more housing for working-class communities has been built on flood plains, it might validate the point about where the resilience is being carried out. Conversely, the anecdotal evidence in Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission’s report suggests that there might be a skew. More organised middle-class communities are certainly sometimes very good at getting decisions to be made.
Mr Ó Néill, do you want to come in on that point?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 28th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. We are joined online by the deputy convener, Jamie Greene.
Agenda item 1 is a decision for members of the committee on whether to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.