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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.
Agenda item 1 is a decision for members of the committee on whether to take agenda items 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Our second agenda item is consideration of the Audit Scotland report “Improving care experience: Delivering The Promise”. I am very pleased to welcome to the committee Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General. He is joined by Mark MacPherson, who is an audit director, and Claire Tennyson, who is an audit manager, both at Audit Scotland. We are also joined by Andrew Burns, who is the deputy chair of the Accounts Commission, because the report that we are considering has been produced jointly by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission. Andrew Burns, you are very welcome.
I will start the proceedings by inviting the Auditor General to make a short opening statement, and then we will get to our questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay. Thank you. I now invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you. I will ask you another question to get your response on the record. You will have read the Audit Scotland report on adult disability payment. Do you agree with the recommendations that are made in that report?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you. That is very helpful. Finally, you have alluded already to the fact that your report makes 58 recommendations across a range of areas. That might not be quite as big a range as you might have liked; nonetheless, 58 is a lot of recommendations. Do you have a view about what the priorities should be for the Scottish Government in the short, medium and long terms? By February of next year, or hopefully even before that, if the Government said, “We accept the recommendations of Edel Harris’s independent review on adult disability payment” and you were in the Government’s shoes, which ones would you look to accelerate and implement in the short term and which ones might be more for the medium and longer terms?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
It is mentioned in the report, is it not, that there can be quite a wide variation from local authority to local authority? What is done to promote good practice? How much networking is there to elevate those examples where things have gone well and where there have been more successful interventions and outcomes compared with those in other areas where there appears to have been fairly minimal activity?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. I will begin by looking at the governance and accountability arrangements. Your report draws attention to the extremely complex governance arrangements that are in place surrounding the Promise. I think that you used the expression “challenging” and said that the attempts so far to address that complex governance landscape have been—again, I will use your word—“insufficient”. Could you expand on that a little bit and give us your understanding of what those governance arrangements are, how they have come about, and what needs to be done to address them?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you. I note that one of your recommendations calls on the Scottish Government, with support from The Promise Scotland, to complete within the next six months—so there is an urgency to this—work to
“review and identify opportunities to streamline the remit, status, and expected impact of governance groups, boards and forums linked to The Promise”,
so you have clearly identified that as requiring urgent attention.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much, Graham. I now invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to our witnesses.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Richard Leonard
I welcome everybody back to this morning’s meeting of the Public Audit Committee. I am very pleased to say that agenda item 3 is further consideration of the Auditor General’s report on adult disability payment. I am particularly pleased to welcome to the committee Edel Harris, who is the former chair of the independent review of adult disability payment. Thank you for joining us—it is greatly appreciated.
We have some questions to put to you, but, before we get to those, I invite you to make a short opening statement to get us under way.