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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Can I just interject and say that Gillian Ritchie has not had an opportunity to come in yet. I know that Education Scotland has done some work on digital poverty and the inequality of access to digital software, hardware and so on. I will invite Gillian to come in on that first, and then if Shona Struthers and Audrey Cumberford want to come in as well, I will invite them afterwards.

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

That is helpful.

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Good morning, and welcome to the fourth meeting of the Public Audit Committee in this session of Parliament. I remind people of the Parliament’s rules on social distancing and the need to wear face coverings if you are moving around the room or if you have to leave or enter the room.

The first item on our agenda is to decide whether to take item 3 in private. Do members agree to take item 3 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I welcome our guests—those online on computer link, and those who have joined us in the committee room. We are keen to get your perspective on the financial health of the further education sector and on issues such as governance arrangements, if you want to address those. Also, especially at this time, we are interested in how further education colleges have coped with the pandemic and what the experience has been for people who have been teaching and students. We also want to cover some ground looking at college performance. Our reference points are a blog that the Auditor General produced in May this year, and the more substantive report that came out in 2019, which gave a weather check on the state of further education colleges post-mergers and so on.

The panel members do not have to respond to every single question. There may be areas where you are enthusiastic to take part and other areas where you feel that others are better equipped to come in. We will have to manage the discussion tightly, given the time constraints. For those of you in the room, it would be helpful if you indicated to me or the clerks if you want to come in. Those on the videolink should put an R in the chat function if they want to come in on a particular part of the conversation. When you speak, your microphone will be automatically switched on.

I will begin by asking people to introduce themselves, starting with the MSPs who are in the room.

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Shona Struthers, then I will move on because Craig Hoy has some questions to ask.

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I ask the panel members in the room to introduce themselves.

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

No one is indicating that they do.

Interaction with the business community was mentioned, and I know that Audrey Cumberford is the co-author of a report that addressed the colleges’ relationship to the economy and which spoke about the extent to which more could be done to build better relationships with the small and medium-sized enterprises sector. Audrey Cumberford, do you want to come in briefly on that point?

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

That is a fascinating insight.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

One of the things that is mentioned in the report, which I think Mr Boyle referred to, is data. Paragraph 25 of the report puts it very starkly when it says:

“The Scottish Government’s national aim is to improve outcomes for all, but it has not set out by how much or by when.”

From an auditing perspective, that sounds like quite a major flaw, doesn’t it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

We will return to some of these themes during the course of this morning’s session. As you stated at the beginning, the report takes us up to January 2021 and, obviously, quite a lot has happened since that time. Have you been able to gather any more information about where things are now? Have you been able to understand whether some of the actions that were recommended in your report, for example, have been followed up at a central and local government level?