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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
I will now bring in Colin Beattie, who has a number of questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
Thank you. If you come across any useful comparators where there is robust data, we would be interested to see that. I think that that might be a matter of public interest as well as being of interest to the Public Audit Committee.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed for your evidence this morning and for the report, which contains a clear analysis of where things are and what might need to change.
I thank Antony Clark and Nichola Williams, for joining us remotely, and the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, for being here with us at the committee.
I close the public part of today’s proceedings.
10:53 Meeting continued in private until 11:38.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
Our second agenda item is to look at the “Improving outcomes for young people through school education” report, which was produced earlier this year. This is an opportunity for us to speak to the accountable officer in the Scottish Government, Joe Griffin, whom I welcome this morning. I think that this is your first appearance before the committee.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
I reconvene the meeting.
We have an important item on our agenda about the Audit Scotland report entitled “Community justice: Sustainable alternatives to custody”. However, before we get to that, I want to refer to the briefing on the vaccination programme that has been published today, I think. It struck me that that is an important piece of work and pretty much a good-news story that reflects on the success of the vaccination programme. Exhibit 2 is a particularly striking demonstration of the extent to which the vaccination programme has reduced hospitalisations, case numbers and people dying from Covid-19.
It is also clear from the briefing that there are still some obstacles that are built on inequalities, and that the level of vaccine hesitancy in some groups—by age and ethnicity, for example—is greater than it is in others. I think that there will need to be further work that looks into the underlying reasons for that. I do not know whether Audit Scotland or others will carry out that work, but that is clearly a challenge that we as a society face. I am sure that we as a committee will consider the briefing in detail in the fullness of time.
Do you want to make any comments on the briefing, Auditor General?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
Finally, if the reconviction rate is demonstrably so much better for community sentences as opposed to custodial sentences, the cost is considerably different and it is clear that the impact on the prison population and the overcrowding of prisons must be a consideration, why has so little progress been made?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We may want to probe a little bit more into that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
Thank you. Craig Hoy will ask some questions on a related theme.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
On that point, I want to end our discussion by reflecting on what you are saying, which is that it is quite clear that the roles and lines of accountability are perhaps not as clear as they ought to be, and that that might be one of the factors in the object of the Government not being met as comprehensively as it would hope and many people would expect.
I want to finish by asking a little bit more about funding. We know that, in the funds for the recover, renew and transform programme, an additional £11.8 million—it is mentioned the report—has been made available for criminal justice social work services. That sounds quite a small amount of money to me. Do you think that it is sufficient to make any difference at all?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
Richard Leonard
I welcome everybody to the fifth meeting in session 6 of the Public Audit Committee. I remind members and guests that the social distancing rules of Parliament must be adhered to. If you are moving around the committee room, or if you are entering or leaving it, please wear a face covering.
The first agenda item is to decide whether to take items 4 and 5 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.