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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Meeting of the Commission
Meeting date: 11 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Other members of the commission might also have questions on staffing, but I want to move on to another area: the future of public audit model. In paragraph 35 of your submission, you talk about a
“root-and-branch review of public audit”.
Do you anticipate that that will deliver savings?
Meeting of the Commission
Meeting date: 11 December 2025
Richard Leonard
So that I understand how it works, is there a default position? Is it automatic that the filling of a vacancy is delayed? Or are some positions so important to the organisation that you would begin recruitment straight away? If you reached a 10 per cent vacancy factor during the 10th month of the year and people left at that point, would you recruit immediately? How does the dynamic of that work?
Meeting of the Commission
Meeting date: 11 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Okay. My final question is on the balance that you have at the moment. Auditor General, you have already referred to the fact that private firms carry out around about a third of the public audit work in Scotland. What does your current market intelligence tell you about that? We have heard before that there might be some increase in the costs that the private sector would expect to enjoy in carrying that work out. You said that you expect to enter the next five-year cycle in 2027-28, which is not too far away. At this stage, what are you doing to understand where the market is and consider whether there are different options that the board, led by Mr Crosby, will need to consider?
Meeting of the Commission
Meeting date: 11 December 2025
Richard Leonard
I take that point completely.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Michael, you can ask one final question, but then we really need to move on.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. When I read the report, and even just hearing your opening statement, I could weep, because this goes back, as the report points out, to at least 2018, but also before that. I think of Mandy McLaren, who lost her son Dale, and Gillian Murray, who lost her uncle to suicide around the Carseview site. Those very traumatic and moving human stories drove the Government to establish the Strang review, which led to reports, although we reached a point where there were complaints about reviews on reviews without progress being seen.
I read the litany of conclusions that you draw about the single site provision and what a mess that appears to be, about complicated structures and about stakeholder engagement being unclear. These are all familiar themes that we have been around the circuit on so many times. Meanwhile, people are being failed. It really does feel as though no progress has been made in the course of seven or eight years.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Am I right in thinking that NHS Tayside is still at level 3 in the escalation process?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Richard Leonard
I will invite Joe FitzPatrick to come in in a second, but I have one last question before I do that.
One of the features of the earlier phases of the reviews and the responses from the health board was what David Strang described as overreporting of progress and an optimism bias. Rachel Browne talked about realism and so on. What is your sense of whether the board is being given an overoptimistic picture of what is changing on the ground? What is your sense of whether the board is being presented with cold, hard facts about where things have reached? As I mentioned at the beginning, the section 22 report mentions a whole series of areas where things are not going as they ought to go.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much. I invite Joe FitzPatrick to put some questions to you.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 10 December 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you. I now invite Michael Marra to put some questions to you.