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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Okay—thank you.
Finally, I return to Catherine Etri and Lynn Murray. Again, following the evidence that we took in December, we got a note from Iain Wishart. He wrote to us in what I thought was quite an extraordinary way. He had a section in his letter where he posed the question,
“How Useful is a Budget?”
He gave a three-point list of reasons, from A to C, why it is not especially useful to set a budget. He said:
“While I fully support doing budgets, they are only one tool within financial planning and do have weaknesses”.
I suppose that I am asking you the question, Lynn Murray, as his successor: do you agree with that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Before we leave this area, I go back to Vicki Nairn. You may have seen the submission that we received from the EIS Further Education Lecturers Association dated 15 December. This goes back to the point about what UHI was doing at that point in the history of UHI Perth when budgets were not being set, things were being allowed to drift and there were splits in the board about whether the budget should be set. The EIS-FELA submission talks of the “Inaction” and “lack of action” of the UHI court/regional strategic body. The letter names you, Vicki Nairn. How do you respond to that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Sorry—Alistair Wylie wishes to come in.
10:30Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thanks. That is useful.
We will have to move things on, so I invite Graham Simpson to put his questions to the witnesses.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
You can stand by your fax machine and wait for it to come through.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
There is no shortage of challenge. I am sure that the committee will consider whether we want to put some of those challenges to the Government’s representative, as the accountable officer, in future weeks.
For the purposes of today, I will draw the evidence session to a close by thanking Bernie Milligan, Leigh Johnston and the Auditor General for the evidence that they have presented to us. As I said, we will consider our next steps.
As agreed by the committee, I now move the meeting into private.
12:46 Meeting continued in private until 13:05.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
I turn straight to Vicki Nairn for her opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much.
Can each of you tell me whether you accept the findings that are set out in the Audit Scotland section 22 report, beginning with Catherine Etri?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you. Again, in the evidence that we have taken, it has been recognised that this was not just a short-term issue. There was a long-term legacy of inadequate internal audit and inadequate resourcing in the finance department. As was mentioned at the committee before Christmas, there were five directors of finance in a very short period of time, which suggests that something was not quite right—I see Mike Baxter nodding his head.
I will move us on, because Colin Beattie has some questions to put. Colin, over to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
I am a little confused because I would have thought that an observer from the UHI’s court going along to meetings of the college board of management would have had some kind of role in communicating and challenging some of the decisions that were being made, particularly given that we have ended up with you appearing before the Public Audit Committee of the Scottish Parliament and there having been a section 22 report by Audit Scotland. We have heard from Tiffany Ritchie that this is almost an unprecedented situation. I suppose the question is why that was allowed to happen.
I think that Mike Baxter wants to come in, so I will bring him in and then I will ask Graham Simpson to put his questions to the witnesses.