The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3780 contributions
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
I think so, yes.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
I have thought about that question. That is one of the most difficult things to put a number on, because it would depend on the local authority. Think about the resource implications for the Highlands and Islands compared with Clackmannanshire or another small geographical area with fewer people. What increase in personnel would be required if it was expanded to the unlicensed breeders that we are talking about? What boots on the ground would be required on your patch? What transport costs would there be? It is a difficult thing to quantify. You would probably get a different answer from every local authority that you asked. Some might think that they needed another full-time equivalent person in the animal welfare team, and some might able to absorb the resource implications. I do not have a definitive answer to that question, because every local authority would have a different answer.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
The question for the member who has introduced the bill is whether she is looking at 32 registers that feed into one central database. How would that work? How would they speak to one another? You could be travelling from one local authority area to another to buy a dog—most people do, because they go to where the dog that they want to purchase is. You would want all those databases to speak to one another.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
Because that is not in the bill, it is not something that I have necessarily an answer to—
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
I will finish my response. If that had been put into the bill, we could have addressed it.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
That is a key question. As I was listening to it, I was thinking about two things. On the one hand—as with quite a lot of this bill—the responsible people will sign up, but the question is: how can we find the people who do not? I do not know—it is impossible.
The other unintended consequence is that if people think that there might be penalties associated with not registering, they might not seek veterinary assistance. What if a household gets caught out and finds itself with a litter? They might want to move the litter on to people whom they know, advertise or whatever, but they might also be worried about the expense of everything else involved. If they cannot afford that, they might worry that, when they take the puppies to the vet for a check-up, the vet might phone the council to say that they are not registered.
It is a complex issue. We have to take into account the fact that we are not talking about people who are breeding for an income; after all, having up to two litters is not a business. We are probably talking about families who are going through a once or twice-in-a-lifetime experience. They might want to let their dog have a litter and to sell the puppies to people in their community whom they might know. Should they then have to do this onerous task? Perhaps I should take away the word “onerous”, as Christine Grahame is not suggesting anything onerous, but what does it really achieve?
The other question that I keep coming back to is this: does being on a register give some kind of false legitimacy to the welfare issues around puppies? That is a worry, too.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
I could not have put it better.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
I do not really know what to say to that. Are you expecting members of the public to phone up and identify neighbours with a litter of puppies?
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 25 October 2023
Gillian Martin
Convener, that is a statement rather than a question.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 28 June 2023
Gillian Martin
I might bring in my officials in a second because, as I said, they have been working on the bill for some time.
The language around use and sale is much cleaner and clearer. My officials will comment on the rationale, on which they have been working for some time, but we could have a situation in which someone could have old glue traps in a garden shed or loft. We should not criminalise people who do not intend to use such traps but who bought them a long time ago and might not even know that they still have them.
We will stop the sale and use of glue traps. My officials will be able to give you the detail of the investigation into that aspect of the bill, but my feeling is that introducing an offence of possession could unnecessarily criminalise people who have just forgotten that they have traps. Police Scotland will be involved in disposal of any glue traps that people have, so I guess that it will do some work to ensure that people do not possess them when they should not. However, I do not see the need to criminalise people who do not intend to use glue traps.