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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 1570 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

The Government set out a number of commitments for a national care service. The first commitment was to establish a social covenant steering group within 100 days and take cognisance of the mine of information that it would gather. We said that we would publish the bill within the first year of the current session of Parliament, which we have done.

We have also said that, during the whole process, we will continue to engage with, and listen to, the voices of lived experience, which we will do. Those folks, along with other stakeholders, will help us to co-design the bill.

I have trust and faith that those folks will help us to do that. We need to ensure—as I am quite sure that we will do—that as many people as possible are involved in the co-design. In so doing, we will work our way through to ensure that there are no unintended consequences, as Ms Thomson asked us to do earlier, and that we provide Parliament with the ultimate amount of opportunities for scrutiny of not only the secondary legislation but every aspect of the financial and economic impact of the decisions that are made during the co-design process.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

No.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

Absolutely.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

You mentioned several organisations that want answers to questions. Some of those questions canna be answered, because those matters are subject to the co-design process. Some of the folks that you mentioned want no change whatsoever. That is not an option at all, because we have to ensure, no matter what, that social care is sustainable for the future.

Beyond that, I note that many of the stakeholders from which the committee has heard are folks who have power and influence and perhaps do not want to see that change. This committee, along with other committees in the Parliament, needs to listen to the voices of lived experience and the change that they want. You should listen to some of the third sector organisations that feel that the current system does not work for them, and to those folks who want change.

The Government made a commitment in its manifesto to introduce legislation to establish a national care service. That is what we are embarking on.

I am sure that there would be arguments galore no matter which way round we had chosen to do it. However, we need to get on with it. We need to have faith and trust in the co-design process, and ensure that people who have not had their voices heard thus far are at the table making the decisions about the issues that affect them on a daily basis in relation to their care and support.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

As I said, I think that if we had moved in another direction some folk in Parliament would have said, “Nah, you have to do the primary legislation first”.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

There is no provision for IT in the bill; therefore it is not in the financial memorandum.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

It is still the local authority’s statutory responsibility to deliver social care and social work. I am quite sure that, in all of this, folk will look to the future in relation to delivering all of that to members of the public instead of considering only their asset base.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

I would have expected to see it before now, Mr Lumsden. Anybody who submits such a number must have the workings behind it, but we do not have them and I do not recognise the figure of £1.5 billion. Now that those questions have been asked by the committee, I hope that we can all see the workings behind the £1.5 billion figure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

As I have said, we will provide the committee with as much information on that as we can as soon as we can.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 8 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

I disagree that we are throwing the baby out with the bath water. We want to ensure that, where service delivery is good, we export it across the board, and the national high-quality standards will ensure that we are able to do that.

Again, I come back to the issue of accountability. People who are being cared for and supported on a daily basis do not feel that the accountability is right; they do not feel that it is right at a local level, and they want accountability at a national level. We need to listen to that. I always look for the best in everything so that we can replicate it where necessary, and the national care standards would give us the ability to do that across the board. However, that also allows for flexibility in delivery at a local level.

Many things that we have discussed today will come into play during the co-design process. If nothing else, I hope that many members of the public and stakeholders will play a part in helping us get it right as we move forward.