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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 August 2025
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Displaying 1425 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

We have left the most important theme until last. We need to see how the bill will deliver for unpaid carers.

During consideration of the bill that became the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016, another Aberdonian, Nanette Milne—whom, I know, the minister knows well—lodged amendments to put in place breaks for carers. That was really important at the time, but it has not been delivered, partly due to the fact that support plans are not being delivered or commissioned. Statistics show that only about 20,000 of the estimated 339,000 unpaid carers are able to access those plans. How will the bill ensure that that situation is turned around and that unpaid carers actually get those breaks?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I thank the panel members for joining us this morning.

I have a couple of questions about employment. What is your understanding, based on the bill as it stands, of who the employer would actually be?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

No. It is okay—I will stop there.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Thank you. Does anyone have other points to make?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Good morning. To go back to the previous answer, all the committees in the Parliament that are looking at the bill are hearing from the sector that there is a lot confusion. People seem to be in the dark about where this is going to go, and that is important.

Last week, Audit Scotland told the committee that such reforms should be based on a clear business case, realistic costings and an assessment of impact on the wider public sector. From the two committees that I sit on, it is evident that that is not known by those who are going to be tasked with delivering a national care service. Do you recognise that the witnesses who are coming to the committees do not know what you are expecting them to do? We are hearing today that a national care service is potentially not what they think it will be.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Thanks for that. To be fair, I note that all the committee’s witnesses have been positive about many aspects of the bill—for example, fair work, data sharing, ethical procurement and the need for a national improvement body. Local care boards could be developed to deliver that. Clinical care standards are something that I have always wanted. This is not about getting rid of everything that the Government has suggested; it is about trying to make it work.

No witnesses appear to support the transfer of roles, responsibilities or budgets away from local government to a new body. The direct impact on local authorities needs to be made clearer.

In the six years for which I have been an MSP I have never seen so many witnesses coming to Parliament expressing concerns, at this stage in the process of a bill. Given all that concern, and cross-party concerns, including from your party, would you be open to the bill being amended by Parliament in many ways to make it more in the spirit of co-design? Many people are expressing concern about that. The minister has been involved in previous legislation through which co-design has worked well—we have heard about that in relation to the Promise and to the ending homelessness together policy. Co-design needs to be delivered on the ground, so is there a chance to pause the process to try to get it right now?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

The Social Justice and Social Security Committee was told by Unison that members of the workforce are being asked to take a leap of faith with the national care service. I want to put to you a question that has been put to us this morning: who would be the employer of anyone who was transferred?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

You just did.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for joining us today. I want to follow on from the previous line of questioning. We know how closely intertwined social care and social work are with council services. Specifically in relation to the transfer of local authority workers, what other consequences has the Government not taken into account?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I think that all the committees that are considering the bill are hearing those concerns.

In their submissions, COSLA and Unison described a scenario in which local authorities could be competing against private and third sector providers. At last week’s meeting, we heard about two areas in which co-design—for want of a better word—with the third sector has been useful: the ending homelessness together programme and the Promise. People wish that the Government had approached the national care service with those principles in mind, rather than telling organisations how things will be.

Will you talk about your concerns about competition? Are they purely to do with bidding for contracts in the future, or are they also about workers’ terms and conditions? Tracey Dalling, you have touched on that.