The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 2813 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Graham Simpson
I shall move on. Miriam, the convener always asks the same question at the start of such meetings, so you should have known that he was going to ask at the start of this meeting whether you accept the recommendations. Your answer appeared to be, “We have not considered them yet. We will get around to it”. However, the report was published in September, you knew that you were coming here and I would have thought that you would have had an answer to that very simple question. Why did you not?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Graham Simpson
Okay—you recognise them.
I am going to ask you about one of the key messages in the report that leads to a recommendation. Then I am going to put the recommendation to you to see whether you agree with it. It is about the funding gap, which we have already mentioned. The report highlights the funding gap, with spending exceeding what we get in block grant by £141 million in 2023-24—Mr Stevens confirmed that. It is forecast to reach £770 million by 2029-30. Implementation costs have so far exceeded initial estimates. Despite that, the Government has not set out a clear strategy to manage the gap or ensure long-term sustainability. How are you going to manage that gap? You said earlier—repeatedly—that ADP is fully funded.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 12 November 2025
Graham Simpson
Colleges Scotland sets out a range of scenarios for the budget, one of which is flat cash, which it calls a “Decline” scenario. It then goes on to set out “Diminished”, “Survivable” and “Sustainable” scenarios.
If you look at the “Decline” scenario, which is flat cash, according to Colleges Scotland, 11 colleges would be at risk of running out of money and would not be able to cover operational costs. Those 11 colleges employ around 6,500 staff. There is a fear that some colleges could close in that scenario.
In your briefing, you mentioned that two colleges were bailed out—they were given extra money by the Government and will presumably have to pay it back. In previous evidence sessions, we were made aware of the Scottish Funding Council risk register, which highlighted that some colleges were at risk. Can you see a scenario in which colleges could close?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
Okay.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
My next question is, if our starting point is that the care system needs to be improved and we will—I will put it this way—promise to improve it, that is the Promise. What do we mean by that? How do we measure that? What constitutes meeting the Promise to improve the care system by 2030? When we get to 2030, what needs to have happened?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
Yes, you did.
We have mentioned the oversight board, and we had correspondence from the chair of the oversight board, David Anderson. I will read a couple of excerpts from that, and I will ask you to tell me what you think. He said:
“Progress to deliver The Promise has been too slow, accountability remains unclear, and planning across government and partners has not been coordinated in a way that gives confidence that – given we are at the halfway mark - enough meaningful change is being achieved.”
I assume from your report that you agree with that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
Okay. Mr Anderson also said:
“Slow progress cannot be explained by complexity alone”—
we have heard that it is complex. He continued:
“It reflects the absence of timely decision-making and clear ownership within Government. When leadership hesitates, systems drift. The barrier is often not process but people. We have seen decisions delayed, accountability avoided, and the urgency of lived experience overlooked.”
That is pretty strong stuff. What is your comment on that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
You are right—it is complicated. It struck me that we could get to 2030 and some parts of the system will have improved. Some people going through the system will say that they have had a good experience and others will not say that. Therefore, when we get to 2030, it will be very difficult to say whether the Promise, whatever that means to you, has been delivered. I am just making that point.
However, what the Promise means, whatever that is, seems to be confusing for the various bodies that are tasked with delivering the Promise. It comes out in your report that it seems to mean different things to different people or different bodies. Is that a fair summary?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
I want to follow up on what you were saying about eligibility and whether we monitor whether the payment improves people’s lives. You seem to be saying that there is no data on that, so we do not know what difference that has made to people, if any. Do you not think that there should be some research into that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 November 2025
Graham Simpson
But you told us earlier that, if the Government followed your recommendations, it would cost more.