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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 March 2026
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Displaying 2770 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Graham Simpson

When will see that detail?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Graham Simpson

When will it become public?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

I am going to ask you about the medium-term financial strategy and then I will ask about workforce reform to finish.

I think that the medium-term financial strategy paints a rather grim picture. You say that the financial position of the Scottish public sector is unsustainable. To me, that suggests profligate spending habits by the Government. At a household level, if you spent more than you were taking in for any period of time, you would pretty soon be in trouble. The Government is not going to go bust, but if it continues down the road that it is on, what could happen?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

Legally, the Scottish Government has to produce a balanced budget. We know that. However, when you are forecasting figures such as a gap of £2.6 billion in 2029-30, that is unsustainable and we cannot carry on like that. What will happen if we continue down that road with those massive and growing gaps?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

I will come on to workforce reform, on which you have a number of paragraphs in the report. In paragraph 56, you say the PSRS, which I am guessing is the public sector reform strategy,

“sets out how the Scottish Government aims to increase the pace and scale of reform. The public sector in Scotland is a larger proportion of the employed population than in the rest of the UK and therefore presents additional financial challenges.”

My question is about the size of the public sector as a proportion of the employed population. Does that figure need to come down?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

Okay. [Interruption.] There is a problem with the mics, so you might have to turn yours off manually. Thank you.

The information about the kitchen is reassuring. What is not reassuring is that it appears that we have in this organisation a very lax approach to spending money. I accept that it raises a lot of money and generates income for the taxpayer. However, that does not give someone the right, if they work for Historic Environment Scotland, to spend money as they wish, which appears, in some cases at least, to have been happening. That cannot just have been down to the lack of an accountable officer for six months, can it?

11:00  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

When you come back—I think in January—we will be asking for a lot more detail on some of this stuff. Okay, I will move on.

There are 125 devolved public bodies. Do you know what the combined budget for those is?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

To end, I will ask you about pay policy. Before I do, however, I will stick to this issue. If 22 per cent of the workforce is employed in the public sector, is there a Government target for getting that down? That is a policy decision. Is there a policy?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

The upshot is that if you ignore your own pay policy and give awards that are outwith that policy, something else has to give.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Graham Simpson

When we think about public service reform—and you are always talking about public service reform—and when we look at the number of devolved public bodies, do you see an opportunity for making savings? There are a lot of bodies. Some functions could be merged, as could some bodies, and some bodies that are maybe not so necessary could be got rid of. Have you done any analysis on that?