Seòmar agus comataidhean

On that note, I draw our session to an end. I thank Kelly McBride, Fiona Garven and Talat Yaqoob for their comprehensive and helpful answers. That very useful discussion complements our previous evidence session, and I thank you all very much for your contributions and your participation today.

With that, I suspend the meeting for a few moments.

PE1859, which was lodged by Barry Blyther, is on retaining falconers’ rights to practise upland falconry in Scotland. We last considered the petition on 1 December 2021.

The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to amend the Animals and Wildlife (Penalties, Protections and Powers) (Scotland) Act 2020 to allow mountain hares to be hunted for the purposes of falconry.

In our meeting in December, we agreed to write to the Scottish Government to seek its views on how it expects captive falcons to differentiate between legal and illegal species. We thought that the whole thing sounded a bit difficult to follow through. For example, how is a bird of prey supposed to tell the difference between a rabbit and a mountain hare when it is exhibiting natural behaviours?

The committee also asked the Scottish Government to clarify when falconers would face prosecution should their bird take a mountain hare, including what the penalties might be for a breach, and how the current legislation is enforced.

The Scottish Government’s response states:

“It is the responsibility of the falconer to eliminate, or at least significantly reduce ... risk ... by only undertaking falconry where mountain hare are unlikely to be present.”

I felt that we had verged on the slightly ridiculous there. I will not say that the landscape is riddled with mountain hares, but it transpired that the Government’s definition of where they are unlikely to be present amounts to some 2.5 per cent of Scotland. Allegedly, they are present in 97.5 per cent of the landscape. It reached a point at which I almost felt as though the Scottish Government was advocating that falcons should be trained in the use of satnav, because they were apparently to understand that the M8, the Harthill service stations, Aberdeen and points towards the coast were where they could go about their business. That all struck me as being slightly removed from reality and playing to the questions that we were considering.

The final submission from the petitioner focuses on the role of falconry in pest control, and points out that there is an exemption for falconry so that gulls can be deterred, even though they carry the same level of protections as the mountain hare.

The Scottish Government’s submission notes that Police Scotland is responsible for enforcing legislation and that penalties for wildlife crime vary depending on what offence has been committed.

I know that Fergus Ewing is quite keen to contribute on that particular item in the first instance.

The next petition is PE1914, on banning school uniforms in secondary schools, which was lodged by Matthew Lewis Simpson. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to remove the requirement for school uniforms for older school pupils. The petitioner cites a range of reasons for lodging the petition, including uniform costs for low-income families, pupil choice and the need for comfortable and weather-appropriate clothing options.

The petition was previously considered on 19 January, when we agreed to write to the Scottish Government, the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland, the National Parent Forum of Scotland and the Scottish Youth Parliament. At that meeting, we heard that the Scottish Government had committed to updating its school uniform guidance and that a public consultation on the issue was imminent. We have now received responses from the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and all the other stakeholders that we have contacted, included the Scottish Youth Parliament, which was unable to come to a determination on the issue. I thought that that was interesting.

At this stage, we probably want to keep the petition open, pending the consultation that the Scottish Government is about to undertake. We believe that it is likely to take place during the summer.

Would colleagues like to make any comments or recommendations?

Do colleagues agree to keep the petition open and to proceed on the basis that has just been discussed?

Members indicated agreement.

Thank you very much, minister and Mr Howieson. Jackie Baillie, who has supported the petitioners in the development of the petition, has been listening to proceedings. Jackie, would you like to make a statement that the committee can consider along with the evidence that we have heard this morning?

Thank you, Ms Baillie. I do not think that it would be quite right for members of the Parliament who are not members of the committee to cross-examine the minister, but, if the minister would like to say anything to the committee before we draw the session to a conclusion, we would be very pleased to hear that.

That is interesting. If the Scottish Government will not expand the remit of its inquiry or, as has been suggested, if a separate inquiry were not to take place, is it possible that some of the themes, lessons and recommendations that emerge through that inquiry in England and Wales could crystallise into actions that campaigners could pursue more directly with the Scottish Government here? In other words, is it possible that that inquiry will lead to recommendations of which Scotland should be taking note, too?

As no other members wish to add anything, are we content to proceed as recommended by Alexander Stewart?

Members indicated agreement.

We will close the petition. We thank the petitioners for raising it with us. In closing it, we will write to the Scottish Government to get the timeline for the items that it has agreed to pursue.

Okay—thank you.

What benefits do you think a public inquiry, the scope of which extended to those who have suffered abuse by religious organisations in Scotland, would have for the pursuit of the injustice that you feel you have suffered?